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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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show number 47 for the eleventh of sep

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tember 2009 Richard Saunders here with

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you back in Sydney Australia fresh off

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the plane after spending a week in

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Atlanta Georgia at dragoncon with zone

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members Kylie Sturgis and dr. Reggie

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Dunlop we even recorded a special

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skeptic zone live at the convention and

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we'll be playing that soon on an

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upcoming episode will also be bringing

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you many interviews over the coming

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weeks with skeptics and others who are

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at dragoncon and even some interviews

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from new york as dr. AG is still in the

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u.s. to attend the New York skeptics in

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the pub and the Nexus meeting on the

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twelfth of September you can find out

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more by visiting w WN ecss co n dot org

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but now to this week's show which is

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sort of a grab bag of our experiences of

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dragoncon just some recordings i made

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along the way to hopefully give you a

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taste of this unbelievable and frantic

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meeting that's followed by a recording

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of one of the panels I was lucky enough

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to be part of this was a presentation

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given by dr. Martin bridge stock and

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Kylie Sturgis of some of the findings of

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their survey into beliefs of the

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paranormal here in Australia so sit back

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grab a nice cup of lemon tea and now

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that works for me when I've got a sore

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throat and enjoy this episode of the

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dragon con 2009 was held from the 4th to

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the seventh of September in Atlanta

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Georgia I together with dr. Rachel

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Dunlop and dr. Steve Roberts from

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Australian skeptics flew over to join

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fellow Australians Kylie Sturgis and dr.

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Martin bridge stock the flight was long

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I'll with our duty free card

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in front of you we also have a moniker

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so you take all major credit cards we

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will be began duty-free it's just human

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well it's not a bus announcement of the

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club but it's next Wesley I dr. aging hi

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Richard how are you I'm fine welcome to

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the mile-high think tank yeah isn't it

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great we are currently at oh I'm looking

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at my little map thing on my

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entertainment device and it doesn't tell

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us how high we are you should assume it

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well said we are near new caledonia

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between Australia and VG at the moment

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yeah we're passing to the east side of

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new caledonia

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and we are 33,000 996 feet up in the air

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and it's minus 38 degrees celsius

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outside we were traveling a 1069

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kilometres an hour wow that's impressive

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isn't it it's not bad oh yeah there's

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new caledonia you know we're heading for

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Fiji right now we're going to pass right

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over the top of Fiji so how are you

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enjoying the flight so far richer loving

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is realized I'm Adam yeah okay there is

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no we just don't if it is important very

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important yeah

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and we've only got 9 hours 32 minutes

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left to go hooray yay after a couple of

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hours stopover in LA we finally flew

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into atlanta the total trip time was 24

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hours door to door the next morning

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being Thursday Rachel Steve and I headed

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out for breakfast hilton buffet

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breakfast trade shop hmm oh he's nomming

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hello steve from nom nom nom nom both

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nomming where this is what day is it

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Thursday Thursday morning and this is

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the calm before the storm I promise you

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as you say yes I mean it's nice and

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peaceful the moment not many people are

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around but starting today people flying

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in rookies and he walks and done general

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i mean--is wiki's and a walk switches

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are they gonna get dressed from a game

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or probably our boat I don't know oh

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hang on Steve suggesting that flying can

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they fly your they're literally flying

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there flapping their wiki wings and hang

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on all his car fly Oh anything's

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possible everyone's getting I'm not a

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science fiction but this is a lovely set

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up they've got here at the Hilton Hotel

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it's it's just really a struggle i said

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this year we having a nice breakfast at

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the moment sitting here they've done

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they've redone the this floor from last

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year which is a bit surprising and

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there's an L there's now am a sky bridge

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between this hotel and the merrier which

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is a huge improvement we're very pleased

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about Richard and delighted last year

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were queuing up on the street and

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walking around trucks and the area this

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is really well so this is the calm

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later on that day after meeting up with

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many old friends we headed for the star

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party at the observatory I couldn't help

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but notice the sounds of the local

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wildlife well I've come to the star

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party here in Atlanta it's thursday

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night and dragoncon really kicks off

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tomorrow and it's wonderful party to

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benefit cancer research unfortunately

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jet lag has caught up with me quite a

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bit and us having trouble staying awake

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in in the lectures which is a bit

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embarrassing so I've come out for a bit

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of fresh end I don't know if you can

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hear that I guess you can cicadas now

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back home in Australia all the cicadas

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when they chirp or whistle whatever they

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do show up I guess they all do it in

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as the plane flies over it's like

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they're having a conversation with each

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it's a very warm evening it's it's

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beautiful here and run one of the burbs

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of that I plan to whether the

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observatory is that's interesting to

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hear the cicadas not much to do with

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skepticism I know but it's just an

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the next day it was time for dr. ray

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cheetah star she gave her first

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dragoncon presentation it's day one it's

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still friday comment before o'clock and

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the next speaker on the skeptics program

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is dr. HD hi dr. HC i Richard and the

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rooms filling up it's a really really

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good to be heard so first experience of

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course sweetie what do you think a

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dragon con so far well I haven't really

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had a chance to go out and really take

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in the atmosphere yet which I will do

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after this in fact and I'm I've seen

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quite a few interesting things you were

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right about the wookies and the

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stormtroopers they're everywhere yeah

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I've seen some Harry Potter's I've seen

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some doctor who's that's just like elves

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and fairies and things and there's a

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huge amount of star trackers young trick

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is I saw some guy with a couple of guys

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with what look like ice cream containers

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on their heads I'm not quite sure what

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they were the Bruce's are back this year

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earlier yeah I've heard about them yeah

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there are a couple of southern Americans

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who dress up as Australian yes yes very

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strange yeah in sort of dungarees and

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hats with corks on them and walk around

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with big cans of fosters which we don't

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even drink cuz it so awful yeah I must

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meet them and they put on australian

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accents don't they know they can try

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okay so and yourself Richard have you

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been enjoying it oh yeah great I'm over

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the worst of the jetlag makes it a bit

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of a frog in my throat which I hope will

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disappear by the time we do our own

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podcasting organisation yes but it

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sounds so sexy yeah not only not at the

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moment and Richard Saunders from the

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skeptic zone not how I Sam I don't I

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just made it up

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in the front rows brian dunning is Brian

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Dunning from skip toy calm good luck

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doctor oh gee thanks dr. Ricardo one of

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the attractions of dragoncon for many is

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the chance to meet and talk with stars

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of film and television in the Walk of

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Fame an array key yes hello Richard

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hello we just had a lovely chat with

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Buck Rogers it is Gerard is that his

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name yeah yeah who played back Rogers in

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the late 70s TV show the same name we're

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in what they call the Walk of Fame here

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it's a big ballroom it's Walter all-star

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it is and we just also had a very nice

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chat to alan roth yes alyssa's may

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remember Alan from his role in ferris

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bueller's day off and suck and Star Trek

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yeah yep and we met a couple of

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Australians here

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big chats about Australia Gill was very

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talkative wasn't he we spoke to him from

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about 10 minutes he was just chatting

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about his experiences in Australia and

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how he came to Australia to the logie

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awards which was what about them like

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Emmy Awards so there's a quite a great

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crowd there's lots of queues for various

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stars let's see who's over here we've

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got Eric Roberts is over there

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and you're gonna get Alan bucks I am

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going to get out of Mansoura I'm status

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the long queue here I don't know who

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it's for police today let's make our way

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through the crowd now that's one of the

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fun things about coming to Dragon time

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you get to see all these big stars in

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the flesh the lower floors of the

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marriott hotel turned into a

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never-ending sideshow of fans dressed in

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the most amazing and elaborate costumes

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hundreds of characters and all of them

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ready to pose for photographs I think

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we're all in some strange new universe

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dr. a chief I know it's some sort of

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parallel universe where everyone's

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dressed as their favorite character from

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a culture where the marriott hotel

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surrounded by thousands of people

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thousands of cussing so there's wonder

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woman over there she must be over 6 feet

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she's very tall very tall that's amazing

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dr. Franken photo just over there we've

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got some star wars pilots some sort of

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wing devil angel e sort of thing Star

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Trek people over there people everywhere

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we've got a lady in of the green bikini

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coming down there playing escalator

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there's a lot of steampunk here is an

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hour a lot of people just assume no

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Harry Potter's wondering about this

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Groucho Marx I see over there yeah yeah

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it's just distracting you with a black

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face he's from a spider man he's a

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spider-man hair isn't able Mickey Mouse

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looking Harry's universe why the man

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Mickey Mouse yeah I'm gonna get a photo

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out of people gathered around taking

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photos I think it might be someone half

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yes

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no wonder they're taking photograph in

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on yeah I thought so let's get to the

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crafting no idea they're like sort of

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one of them is a unicorn insane

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Hardig rush everywhere

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she's wandering off go upstairs

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okay we've come up a couple of levels

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and they're just thousands of people

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everywhere and all sorts of weird things

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is that guy as a devil there there's a

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military guy over there there's a

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superhero over there there's a Viking

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well Chadwicks explain really what we're

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seeing is just people love to dress up

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yeah it's some incredible and obviously

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people spend a lot of time on some of

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these costumes as well there's another

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wonder woman over there I've seen a

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couple of wonder women this weekend in a

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black Superman that was funny Superman

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you yeah I got his photo yesterday

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there's people just as where's waldo

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which is interesting board games are a

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very popular part of dragoncon but i

270
00:14:31,929 --> 00:14:26,600
never imagined they came in so many

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varieties well one of these

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one of the major features of dragoncon

273
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apart from all the other major features

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is the gaming like Dungeons and Dragons

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and dice games and games of little cards

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now we've come right down to the bottom

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of the hilton sort of the the bowels of

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00:14:52,269 --> 00:14:48,769
the hilton and we're an enormous room

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here yes i Richard we are it's some yeah

280
00:14:56,489 --> 00:14:53,689
it goes on forever doesn't it end as

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00:14:58,809 --> 00:14:56,499
little rows and rows of tables and

282
00:15:00,789 --> 00:14:58,819
people playing games playing games here

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00:15:04,779 --> 00:15:00,799
our games of every description if we

284
00:15:07,899 --> 00:15:04,789
walk over here there's a whole table

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00:15:11,009 --> 00:15:07,909
with the most amazing miniature little

286
00:15:13,929 --> 00:15:11,019
characters for games they're only about

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00:15:17,259 --> 00:15:13,939
three centimeters tall and they're

288
00:15:19,449 --> 00:15:17,269
superheroes and all sorts of things very

289
00:15:21,339 --> 00:15:19,459
colorful yeah they look great oh crap

290
00:15:22,869 --> 00:15:21,349
but there are there are people sitting

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00:15:26,740 --> 00:15:22,879
in tables playing all sorts of games

292
00:15:30,490 --> 00:15:26,750
over here games I've never heard about

293
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:30,500
lots of rules lots of cards with dice

294
00:15:36,370 --> 00:15:34,010
and little bits you pop out we're doing

295
00:15:39,130 --> 00:15:36,380
a podcast from Australia really hi

296
00:15:43,540 --> 00:15:39,140
everyone re oh hello and this game is

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fury of dracula wow it didn't know that

298
00:15:47,710 --> 00:15:45,830
oh I see the little vampire he figures

299
00:15:49,570 --> 00:15:47,720
that you're playing with me so you move

300
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:49,580
around sort of a big map of Europe

301
00:15:53,530 --> 00:15:51,650
they're going to England around Europe

302
00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:53,540
to explain that one just gotta find

303
00:15:58,780 --> 00:15:57,050
Dracula Indian Israelis directly in your

304
00:16:01,990 --> 00:15:58,790
trying to find you amberlynn Emily's

305
00:16:05,260 --> 00:16:02,000
right there we tried but the car again

306
00:16:06,910 --> 00:16:05,270
man if you drive a stake so there's

307
00:16:08,230 --> 00:16:06,920
cards and there's dice involved with

308
00:16:10,690 --> 00:16:08,240
this game for those sorts of things like

309
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:10,700
that it's fantastic they get a ride I'm

310
00:16:15,670 --> 00:16:14,330
advertised on IMA thing and it's some

311
00:16:18,790 --> 00:16:15,680
traditional board games here to of

312
00:16:21,340 --> 00:16:18,800
course the big table of collectible

313
00:16:24,010 --> 00:16:21,350
trading cards

314
00:16:25,750 --> 00:16:24,020
and I think at night Richard I heard

315
00:16:27,910 --> 00:16:25,760
last night from brian dunning that they

316
00:16:30,700 --> 00:16:27,920
have role-playing down here until very

317
00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:30,710
very late or early in the morning I'm

318
00:16:35,470 --> 00:16:31,850
not quite sure what that cheese was

319
00:16:37,510 --> 00:16:35,480
about I mean I've got cards here good

320
00:16:40,330 --> 00:16:37,520
cards here yeah there's also two cars is

321
00:16:41,860 --> 00:16:40,340
very interesting pokemon cards in magic

322
00:16:46,390 --> 00:16:41,870
cards world of warcraft world of

323
00:16:48,670 --> 00:16:46,400
warcraft and the lady behind the counter

324
00:16:54,130 --> 00:16:48,680
has got the most amazing blue eyes and

325
00:16:56,260 --> 00:16:54,140
draw wow she's a vampire we've actually

326
00:17:00,610 --> 00:16:56,270
with a tankard as well which is handy a

327
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:00,620
beer yeah dressed up like a pirate a

328
00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:03,170
pirate vampire with blue eyes yes an

329
00:17:09,850 --> 00:17:07,130
extraordinary more role-playing games of

330
00:17:12,970 --> 00:17:09,860
luck see the dice name is there like 10

331
00:17:15,010 --> 00:17:12,980
sided dice 20-sided dice Crowley Sturgis

332
00:17:18,370 --> 00:17:15,020
even do they bought a 30 sided us has

333
00:17:20,470 --> 00:17:18,380
she started yes yeah crazy people

334
00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:20,480
actually use those for gaming I guess

335
00:17:26,130 --> 00:17:23,330
they didn't I guess they do now there's

336
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:26,140
one over here look at this one Rachel

337
00:17:31,180 --> 00:17:28,730
it's a maze or the train line and

338
00:17:32,770 --> 00:17:31,190
soldiers fighting each other here we go

339
00:17:34,330 --> 00:17:32,780
they're gonna have scorpions that around

340
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:34,340
the maze and exciting rolling the dog

341
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:36,770
animals very excited I've never seen

342
00:17:41,070 --> 00:17:38,450
this before but it's um a whole series

343
00:17:44,169 --> 00:17:41,080
of Sylvia looks like a

344
00:17:47,409 --> 00:17:44,179
amazed with soldiers and then they've

345
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:47,419
got a whole series of scorpions and

346
00:17:54,399 --> 00:17:49,730
spiders and other sort of insects looks

347
00:17:56,409 --> 00:17:54,409
quite home a machine is literally one

348
00:17:58,779 --> 00:17:56,419
thing dr. H about this room it's nice

349
00:18:01,720 --> 00:17:58,789
and cool it's really nice and cool in

350
00:18:03,909 --> 00:18:01,730
fact year we were just in a lecture

351
00:18:07,389 --> 00:18:03,919
earlier a seminar and it was very very

352
00:18:09,850 --> 00:18:07,399
hot and packed out its yeah very space

353
00:18:11,289 --> 00:18:09,860
it's spacious and very nice and cool all

354
00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:11,299
the air conditioning has been channeled

355
00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:14,480
down here it has to the gamers I don't

356
00:18:17,740 --> 00:18:16,370
think anybody plays monopoly in order to

357
00:18:21,070 --> 00:18:17,750
reaching well I don't see monopoly

358
00:18:23,230 --> 00:18:21,080
anywhere to you know so here we are

359
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:23,240
Richard at the gaming registration table

360
00:18:27,100 --> 00:18:25,610
where you can sign up to play Dungeons

361
00:18:29,499 --> 00:18:27,110
and Dragons or all kinds of other things

362
00:18:32,350 --> 00:18:29,509
but there's also you can sign up to do

363
00:18:34,509 --> 00:18:32,360
love what's locked well it's some sort

364
00:18:36,129 --> 00:18:34,519
of role playing so the RP is role play

365
00:18:38,590 --> 00:18:36,139
and I'm not quite sure what the LA means

366
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:38,600
but this is lap headquarters right here

367
00:18:42,730 --> 00:18:40,850
and apparently this kicks off late at

368
00:18:44,740 --> 00:18:42,740
night and this is what brian dunning saw

369
00:18:48,369 --> 00:18:44,750
last night and he said it was rather

370
00:18:50,350 --> 00:18:48,379
strange we described it yeah we can come

371
00:18:57,159 --> 00:18:50,360
back and ever look yeah maybe we can

372
00:18:59,740 --> 00:18:57,169
laughs Wow finally after many days that

373
00:19:01,840 --> 00:18:59,750
ran into each other countless costumes

374
00:19:04,180 --> 00:19:01,850
attending and speaking on panels over

375
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:04,190
three tracks and spending time with good

376
00:19:09,970 --> 00:19:06,970
friends dragoncon came to an end a

377
00:19:13,060 --> 00:19:09,980
ragtag group of skeptics spent the last

378
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:13,070
few hours of Monday wandering around the

379
00:19:24,270 --> 00:19:20,610
well all good things must come to an end

380
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:24,280
and even this even dragoncon we've made

381
00:19:28,620 --> 00:19:26,410
our way halfway up the Hilton Hotel to a

382
00:19:31,380 --> 00:19:28,630
sort of a little weird sort of lounge

383
00:19:33,330 --> 00:19:31,390
area we can hear the elevators going up

384
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:33,340
and down I'm hit sitting here if you

385
00:19:37,140 --> 00:19:35,170
were the tail end of the ragtag group of

386
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:37,150
skeptics to the left so what I'll do is

387
00:19:41,100 --> 00:19:38,530
I'll just pass this around I'll get

388
00:19:42,900 --> 00:19:41,110
everybody's comments just introduce

389
00:19:45,990 --> 00:19:42,910
yourself and say a few words about your

390
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:46,000
experience skeptical Steve Roberts from

391
00:19:51,390 --> 00:19:48,570
Melbourne it's my first Dragon Con a

392
00:19:53,850 --> 00:19:51,400
fluid especially for it it's been a wait

393
00:19:56,700 --> 00:19:53,860
of a sign was 35,000 people here and

394
00:19:58,440 --> 00:19:56,710
many in costume and lots of sessions you

395
00:20:01,080 --> 00:19:58,450
can go so lots of things to see y'all

396
00:20:03,300 --> 00:20:01,090
some things to do I've no time to eat

397
00:20:07,050 --> 00:20:03,310
it's been so frantic I've needed reading

398
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:07,060
for three days oh hell oh hell of a time

399
00:20:10,740 --> 00:20:08,290
and I'm what he brought to come back

400
00:20:19,650 --> 00:20:10,750
next year so forward to backing column

401
00:20:23,010 --> 00:20:19,660
2010 Cheers this is a mrs. jr skeptic um

402
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:23,020
I didn't honestly expect to have fun but

403
00:20:28,110 --> 00:20:25,210
I did and I and I met some amazing

404
00:20:30,780 --> 00:20:28,120
people and I had an amazing time doing

405
00:20:35,580 --> 00:20:30,790
nothing in particular mostly gawking and

406
00:20:37,290 --> 00:20:35,590
I'm leaving home with a better feel for

407
00:20:39,990 --> 00:20:37,300
all the wonderful people involved in

408
00:20:42,460 --> 00:20:40,000
skepticism and wonderful ideas for my

409
00:20:47,549 --> 00:20:42,470
costume next year

410
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:47,559
hey there George Rob with a low post con

411
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:52,730
voice we are sitting on the 19th floor

412
00:20:58,990 --> 00:20:56,090
watching the elevators fly by as if from

413
00:21:04,570 --> 00:20:59,000
some science-fiction movie which

414
00:21:06,100 --> 00:21:04,580
involves luggage I love this movie and I

415
00:21:09,669 --> 00:21:06,110
want to keep watching it year after year

416
00:21:13,630 --> 00:21:09,679
after year all of the Klingons have gone

417
00:21:16,930 --> 00:21:13,640
home all the iron men have gone home all

418
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:16,940
of the women with far too much or far

419
00:21:26,610 --> 00:21:21,530
too little clothing have gone home it's

420
00:21:32,410 --> 00:21:30,040
this is daniel of jr skeptic sitting

421
00:21:34,450 --> 00:21:32,420
here in this very Logan's Run sort of

422
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:34,460
space I'm just been touring all the

423
00:21:40,090 --> 00:21:36,170
other logan's run type buildings and

424
00:21:44,110 --> 00:21:40,100
thinking about Star Trek nerds come and

425
00:21:49,180 --> 00:21:44,120
gone and reflecting on what a fantastic

426
00:21:52,180 --> 00:21:49,190
event this was and I'm going home seized

427
00:21:55,540 --> 00:21:52,190
with inspiration and we just found more

428
00:22:00,160 --> 00:21:55,550
friends here come Kylie and Derek Derek

429
00:22:03,310 --> 00:22:00,170
how did it go dragoncon tell us busy I'm

430
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:03,320
very tired and I thought was kind of

431
00:22:08,140 --> 00:22:05,930
cool and George Arab is sitting here

432
00:22:10,780 --> 00:22:08,150
playing you know homeland range or

433
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:10,790
something it's like you know was this

434
00:22:14,650 --> 00:22:12,650
everybody's this league everybody's

435
00:22:18,910 --> 00:22:14,660
going home from drank on saw they've

436
00:22:22,450 --> 00:22:18,920
done to do do do do do what was your

437
00:22:24,190 --> 00:22:22,460
impressions of dragoncon Kylie kind of

438
00:22:26,430 --> 00:22:24,200
tastes like mystique so must know

439
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:26,440
dragoncon taste like Mustangs yeah

440
00:22:31,060 --> 00:22:28,850
that's what I think that's that after

441
00:22:34,300 --> 00:22:31,070
all this time it's starting to yeah just

442
00:22:41,530 --> 00:22:34,310
tastes like Australian or Lisa good

443
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:41,540
comment cela and finally dr. Richie yeah

444
00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:44,450
it's strange we turned up on Wednesday

445
00:22:49,870 --> 00:22:46,370
and all the hotels were empty and

446
00:22:52,750 --> 00:22:49,880
Richard took me on a bit of a tour to

447
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:52,760
just show me the juxtaposition of what

448
00:22:57,220 --> 00:22:54,290
would happen on the thursday and the

449
00:22:59,110 --> 00:22:57,230
friday and it's gone back to what it was

450
00:23:01,990 --> 00:22:59,120
on the Wednesday now everything's empty

451
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:02,000
we went over to the marriott and we did

452
00:23:05,950 --> 00:23:03,890
a bit of a photo shoot over there since

453
00:23:10,330 --> 00:23:05,960
now most people have gone which involved

454
00:23:13,180 --> 00:23:10,340
George walking backwards down an up

455
00:23:16,060 --> 00:23:13,190
escalator and then the five of us

456
00:23:20,530 --> 00:23:16,070
walking down an up escalator until we

457
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:20,540
heard this oi excuse me

458
00:23:24,300 --> 00:23:22,730
and then the security guard said he

459
00:23:28,030 --> 00:23:24,310
wouldn't give us a lecture but

460
00:23:30,010 --> 00:23:28,040
nevertheless we got in trouble we were

461
00:23:31,930 --> 00:23:30,020
just fooling around and then we took the

462
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:31,940
lift to the 47th floor of the marriott

463
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:36,170
which was really cool so this is also my

464
00:23:43,150 --> 00:23:39,410
first Dragon Con and like daniel said

465
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:43,160
it's a pretty amazing i did around about

466
00:23:47,740 --> 00:23:44,930
i don't know six panels i think all up

467
00:23:49,900 --> 00:23:47,750
had a great time met some people that

468
00:23:52,810 --> 00:23:49,910
i've been working with for a while but

469
00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:52,820
never actually set eyes upon like Steve

470
00:23:58,750 --> 00:23:56,480
novella and rebecca watson and Daniel

471
00:24:00,910 --> 00:23:58,760
Loxton and of course gos here now

472
00:24:04,450 --> 00:24:00,920
playing home on the range for us which

473
00:24:07,750 --> 00:24:04,460
is lovely and we're drinking Molly water

474
00:24:16,930 --> 00:24:07,760
until next year this has been dr. Richie

475
00:24:19,210 --> 00:24:16,940
at DragonCon so dragoncon was over for

476
00:24:21,610 --> 00:24:19,220
yet another year I would like to thank

477
00:24:23,710 --> 00:24:21,620
Derek and swoopy from skeptic allottee

478
00:24:26,290 --> 00:24:23,720
for once again bringing the skeptic

479
00:24:28,540 --> 00:24:26,300
track together thank you to the Aussies

480
00:24:30,870 --> 00:24:28,550
who made the long journey and thank you

481
00:24:34,270 --> 00:24:30,880
to brian dunning who shared our room

482
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:34,280
also a very special thank you to the

483
00:24:40,540 --> 00:24:37,970
kevin rathbun steak house in Atlanta for

484
00:24:43,450 --> 00:24:40,550
what was simply the best steaks we have

485
00:24:46,330 --> 00:24:43,460
ever eaten I can thoroughly recommend it

486
00:24:49,390 --> 00:24:46,340
and I can thoroughly recommend the chaos

487
00:25:11,220 --> 00:24:49,400
the carnival the experience that is

488
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:13,360
examining the truth in exposing the

489
00:25:17,710 --> 00:25:15,890
frauds but psychics co uk is the website

490
00:25:19,810 --> 00:25:17,720
that critically examines mediums

491
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:19,820
clairvoyants and psychics follow the

492
00:25:23,740 --> 00:25:21,650
controversies news and discussions in

493
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:23,750
the lively forum community and now you

494
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:25,250
can download your weekly fix of

495
00:25:29,290 --> 00:25:26,930
righteous indignation the official

496
00:25:30,550 --> 00:25:29,300
podcast bad psychics khodet UK that

497
00:25:33,700 --> 00:25:30,560
talks hard and critically about

498
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:33,710
paranormal bad psychics doctor at UK the

499
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:35,050
UK's largest and most respected

500
00:25:46,450 --> 00:25:44,450
skeptical site looking at psychics now

501
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:46,460
we bring you dr. Martin bridge stock and

502
00:25:52,330 --> 00:25:49,730
Kylie Sturgis and myself as they discuss

503
00:25:56,310 --> 00:25:52,340
beliefs of the paranormal as part of the

504
00:25:59,620 --> 00:25:56,320
science track at DragonCon I don't know

505
00:26:02,530 --> 00:25:59,630
hello Kylie okay folks as far as I know

506
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:02,540
this is the only outright research paper

507
00:26:07,090 --> 00:26:04,490
that's being presented Dragon Con this

508
00:26:10,390 --> 00:26:07,100
year my name is Martin Grinch doc I'm an

509
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:10,400
academic Brisbane in Australia this is

510
00:26:15,010 --> 00:26:12,650
kylie sturgis who is an academic on the

511
00:26:16,930 --> 00:26:15,020
other side of the continent and this is

512
00:26:19,180 --> 00:26:16,940
Richard Saunders who's here representing

513
00:26:20,830 --> 00:26:19,190
the Australian skeptics foundation and

514
00:26:23,250 --> 00:26:20,840
as you'll see we have a lot to thank

515
00:26:26,380 --> 00:26:23,260
Richard and the extermination people for

516
00:26:28,050 --> 00:26:26,390
okay what are we talking about what

517
00:26:31,660 --> 00:26:28,060
we're talking about first of all is

518
00:26:33,820 --> 00:26:31,670
opinion polls opinion polls have been

519
00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:33,830
carried out about people's beliefs in

520
00:26:39,550 --> 00:26:37,130
paranormal claims and they've been

521
00:26:42,100 --> 00:26:39,560
carried out in this country in Australia

522
00:26:43,570 --> 00:26:42,110
in the UK and in other countries and

523
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:43,580
what they seem to indicate quite

524
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:45,410
consistently is that large numbers of

525
00:26:49,250 --> 00:26:47,930
people in developed countries we're not

526
00:26:50,510 --> 00:26:49,260
talking about African country

527
00:26:52,790 --> 00:26:50,520
anything like that in developed

528
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:52,800
countries have one or more paranormal

529
00:26:59,270 --> 00:26:54,770
beliefs they often believe in telepathy

530
00:27:02,450 --> 00:26:59,280
psychic healing ESP and so on another

531
00:27:04,550 --> 00:27:02,460
finding and this has been caught the

532
00:27:07,210 --> 00:27:04,560
cause of a lot of self-flagellation of

533
00:27:10,370 --> 00:27:07,220
all Americans is that very few people

534
00:27:11,870 --> 00:27:10,380
understand how science works that is you

535
00:27:14,090 --> 00:27:11,880
to go to an average person on the street

536
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:14,100
to say okay what are the processes by

537
00:27:18,950 --> 00:27:16,410
which science works most people can't

538
00:27:20,690 --> 00:27:18,960
tell you they can't even give you the

539
00:27:22,460 --> 00:27:20,700
basis that you'd necessarily involves

540
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:22,470
some kind of experimental observation

541
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:25,050
some kind of theory testing and so on

542
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:28,050
and there are repeated polls which

543
00:27:33,950 --> 00:27:30,210
support these two conclusions for

544
00:27:35,570 --> 00:27:33,960
example there was a 2005 gallup poll in

545
00:27:37,550 --> 00:27:35,580
the united states which indicated a

546
00:27:40,070 --> 00:27:37,560
seventy-three percent of Americans held

547
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:40,080
at least one périgord belief forty-one

548
00:27:44,570 --> 00:27:42,570
percent of them believed in ESP 37 of

549
00:27:46,790 --> 00:27:44,580
the 37 / sentiment believed in haunted

550
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:46,800
houses and so on and I'm going to reveal

551
00:27:50,030 --> 00:27:48,570
to a dirty little secret here please

552
00:27:51,710 --> 00:27:50,040
don't shoot the messenger most

553
00:27:53,780 --> 00:27:51,720
Australians when they see those speakers

554
00:27:56,540 --> 00:27:53,790
will think well Americans almost have

555
00:27:59,810 --> 00:27:56,550
lots and lots of funny ideas but polls

556
00:28:01,730 --> 00:27:59,820
have been done in Australia Zoo or

557
00:28:04,340 --> 00:28:01,740
better one up in the USA about

558
00:28:06,470 --> 00:28:04,350
fifty-five percent apparently believe in

559
00:28:08,780 --> 00:28:06,480
creation and I'm not talking about a

560
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:08,790
broad definition of creation I'm talking

561
00:28:13,910 --> 00:28:10,890
about a preference for youngberg

562
00:28:16,030 --> 00:28:13,920
creationism that is to say an earth

563
00:28:18,380 --> 00:28:16,040
which is thousands of years old and

564
00:28:20,990 --> 00:28:18,390
where people are that were created

565
00:28:23,150 --> 00:28:21,000
pretty much in their present form but

566
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:23,160
here is an Australian won the australian

567
00:28:28,430 --> 00:28:25,530
version of Reader's Digest did a poll in

568
00:28:29,810 --> 00:28:28,440
and 2004 and that showed that among

569
00:28:31,850 --> 00:28:29,820
other things about eighty percent of

570
00:28:33,980 --> 00:28:31,860
Australia's believe in ESP or psychic

571
00:28:35,990 --> 00:28:33,990
powers so the Americans are on time to

572
00:28:38,060 --> 00:28:36,000
say well it's the Australians who have

573
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:38,070
the funny ideas in fact you can't

574
00:28:42,290 --> 00:28:40,170
compare the results as any survey

575
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:42,300
research and will tell you if you ask

576
00:28:45,380 --> 00:28:43,890
the survey question just

577
00:28:47,540 --> 00:28:45,390
righton differently you often get

578
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:47,550
enormous differences in the responses so

579
00:28:49,850 --> 00:28:48,810
if the questions are different you're

580
00:28:52,220 --> 00:28:49,860
going to get radically different

581
00:28:54,650 --> 00:28:52,230
responses what we can say with some

582
00:28:57,980 --> 00:28:54,660
confidence from these results is that a

583
00:28:59,960 --> 00:28:57,990
very large numbers of people a big

584
00:29:02,480 --> 00:28:59,970
majority of people do have paranormal

585
00:29:05,330 --> 00:29:02,490
beliefs and also the great majority of

586
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:05,340
them don't understand how science works

587
00:29:09,770 --> 00:29:08,130
now this latter finding has caused a

588
00:29:12,020 --> 00:29:09,780
great deal of self-flagellation of our

589
00:29:13,910 --> 00:29:12,030
American educators the problem is that

590
00:29:16,370 --> 00:29:13,920
there have been a few studies done which

591
00:29:19,220 --> 00:29:16,380
compare American they're very complex

592
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:19,230
knowledge of science with European

593
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:20,730
public knowledge of science and the

594
00:29:24,860 --> 00:29:23,010
Americans actually do a bit better than

595
00:29:26,510 --> 00:29:24,870
the Europeans do so don't let the

596
00:29:28,910 --> 00:29:26,520
Europeans look down their noses at you

597
00:29:30,470 --> 00:29:28,920
in mass they don't know any more than

598
00:29:32,510 --> 00:29:30,480
Americans do okay the next bit is

599
00:29:34,870 --> 00:29:32,520
carbons that makes get there unless an

600
00:29:37,610 --> 00:29:34,880
example of a different sort of hole

601
00:29:39,710 --> 00:29:37,620
involving less of people but it's

602
00:29:41,330 --> 00:29:39,720
certainly a different sort of subject

603
00:29:43,910 --> 00:29:41,340
and that was looking at New Age

604
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:43,920
practices and it had some interesting

605
00:29:48,170 --> 00:29:45,810
findings about how there are certain

606
00:29:50,510 --> 00:29:48,180
cultural practices like going into yoga

607
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:50,520
class that will help endorse certain new

608
00:29:57,050 --> 00:29:53,850
age for means such as feng shui crystal

609
00:29:59,210 --> 00:29:57,060
healing reiki and the line and they have

610
00:30:01,010 --> 00:29:59,220
course seen other polls as you mentioned

611
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:01,020
in other countries it's us more-- in

612
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:03,120
2008 was particularly good one from the

613
00:30:07,070 --> 00:30:05,370
UK and again it's rather difficult to

614
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:07,080
prepare them all but they do add to a

615
00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:10,050
bigger picture in the end we have here a

616
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:16,320
television star what is this yes believe

617
00:30:21,830 --> 00:30:19,050
in the paranormal now last year I was

618
00:30:24,170 --> 00:30:21,840
approached by one of the major networks

619
00:30:25,700 --> 00:30:24,180
in Australia they had an idea for a TV

620
00:30:28,580 --> 00:30:25,710
show which was sort of like American

621
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:28,590
Idol or Australian Idol except the

622
00:30:34,700 --> 00:30:31,290
contestants supposedly had psychic

623
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:34,710
powers and they needed two judges a

624
00:30:41,310 --> 00:30:38,290
skeptical judge and a believing judge

625
00:30:43,410 --> 00:30:41,320
and through a process of elimination and

626
00:30:46,380 --> 00:30:43,420
interviews and whatnot I was chosen to

627
00:30:48,990 --> 00:30:46,390
be the skeptical judge nevertheless what

628
00:30:52,710 --> 00:30:49,000
it does show and in fact the show went

629
00:30:55,500 --> 00:30:52,720
on to be on it today the final it was

630
00:30:58,920 --> 00:30:55,510
five episodes in the final show was the

631
00:31:01,590 --> 00:30:58,930
highest rating show in the country a lot

632
00:31:04,890 --> 00:31:01,600
of people were tuning in to see amazing

633
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:04,900
paranormal feats and the impression

634
00:31:07,830 --> 00:31:06,730
people would have had by watching that I

635
00:31:10,140 --> 00:31:07,840
guess a lot of people had their own

636
00:31:12,090 --> 00:31:10,150
beliefs confirmed people who believe in

637
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:12,100
the paranormal in the supernatural but

638
00:31:15,540 --> 00:31:13,930
the fact that it got the highest rating

639
00:31:17,100 --> 00:31:15,550
show in the country I think speaks

640
00:31:19,260 --> 00:31:17,110
volumes is the fact that a lot of people

641
00:31:21,390 --> 00:31:19,270
who watch television certainly one of

642
00:31:24,210 --> 00:31:21,400
the tune in to see just how good these

643
00:31:26,550 --> 00:31:24,220
psychics were at performing it's very

644
00:31:30,210 --> 00:31:26,560
interesting experience okay thanks

645
00:31:32,220 --> 00:31:30,220
Richard now in particular these results

646
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:32,230
about the support from creation science

647
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:33,490
in this country and the lack of

648
00:31:37,350 --> 00:31:35,770
knowledge of how science works is very

649
00:31:38,790 --> 00:31:37,360
worried because the United States is the

650
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:38,800
world's number one scientist

651
00:31:44,190 --> 00:31:41,890
intellectual power and yet apparently a

652
00:31:47,070 --> 00:31:44,200
majority of the population reject

653
00:31:49,050 --> 00:31:47,080
crucial findings but science is

654
00:31:53,190 --> 00:31:49,060
producing it's not just about injecting

655
00:31:54,870 --> 00:31:53,200
dilution they must also reject a geology

656
00:31:57,660 --> 00:31:54,880
and the account of how you developed and

657
00:31:59,700 --> 00:31:57,670
cosmology and the basic scientific

658
00:32:02,040 --> 00:31:59,710
method and yet it's there it's public

659
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:02,050
dollars ultimately which Bible method or

660
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:05,370
by one means or another support science

661
00:32:09,930 --> 00:32:08,050
so we can't do anything about the

662
00:32:11,190 --> 00:32:09,940
American situation but we did want to

663
00:32:13,290 --> 00:32:11,200
find out what people believe in

664
00:32:15,030 --> 00:32:13,300
Australia we have to know which claims

665
00:32:17,250 --> 00:32:15,040
are justified in which or not this is

666
00:32:19,350 --> 00:32:17,260
what skepticism is all about so let me

667
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:19,360
first of all introduce to you the state

668
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:21,930
of Queensland which is my home state

669
00:32:26,250 --> 00:32:23,890
I'll let you know what you're looking at

670
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:26,260
here Australia is the smallest continent

671
00:32:31,290 --> 00:32:29,050
it's about the same size as the lower 48

672
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:31,300
states of the United States minus one

673
00:32:35,220 --> 00:32:33,250
average state so it's just a sub shade

674
00:32:37,530 --> 00:32:35,230
smaller the state of Queensland is in

675
00:32:38,790 --> 00:32:37,540
the top right-hand corner it's a little

676
00:32:40,830 --> 00:32:38,800
bit larger a few

677
00:32:42,870 --> 00:32:40,840
larger than the state of Alaska but

678
00:32:44,610 --> 00:32:42,880
there the resemblance ends because as

679
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:44,620
you go further north up the Queensland

680
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:46,690
coast it gets hotter and wetter till

681
00:32:50,130 --> 00:32:48,130
you're in the tropics and if you go

682
00:32:52,230 --> 00:32:50,140
inland from the southeast Queensland

683
00:32:54,210 --> 00:32:52,240
coast it gets drier and drier until

684
00:32:55,620 --> 00:32:54,220
you're in desert as a result very

685
00:32:57,390 --> 00:32:55,630
sensibly the vast majority of the

686
00:32:59,490 --> 00:32:57,400
population live in the south east and

687
00:33:01,350 --> 00:32:59,500
corner wear the red spot is centered on

688
00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:01,360
the capital city of Brisbane and the

689
00:33:06,030 --> 00:33:04,000
sunshine and Gold Coast it has a

690
00:33:07,380 --> 00:33:06,040
population of about 4 million most of

691
00:33:10,650 --> 00:33:07,390
them tucked away down there in that

692
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:10,660
corner if you here we see off the

693
00:33:19,170 --> 00:33:15,370
Barrier Reef it's fair yes now Quentin

694
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:19,180
is of interest for another reason about

695
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:22,570
20-25 years ago Queensland was dominated

696
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:24,850
by Christian fundamentalists how

697
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:27,010
dominated was it while this man GOP I'll

698
00:33:30,540 --> 00:33:28,330
can Peterson was premiere which

699
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:30,550
corresponds roughly to governor of the

700
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:32,650
state for about 20 years he was a crisp

701
00:33:36,390 --> 00:33:34,570
Christian fundamentalist the leader of

702
00:33:38,460 --> 00:33:36,400
the opposition in parliament a man

703
00:33:40,350 --> 00:33:38,470
called Keith Wright was also a Christian

704
00:33:42,630 --> 00:33:40,360
fundamentalist and the Minister for

705
00:33:44,700 --> 00:33:42,640
education of state of Queensland who was

706
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:44,710
responsible to the patient was also a

707
00:33:49,410 --> 00:33:46,570
Christian dominantly you've been I

708
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:49,420
stopped when we were it was helpless um

709
00:33:54,990 --> 00:33:53,050
the minister of education I had some

710
00:33:58,110 --> 00:33:55,000
friends in the creation science movement

711
00:33:59,910 --> 00:33:58,120
and he took the lead in trying to force

712
00:34:03,120 --> 00:33:59,920
creation science into our science

713
00:34:06,300 --> 00:34:03,130
syllabus he convened a panel of teachers

714
00:34:06,649 --> 00:34:06,310
to decide how creations answers to be

715
00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:06,659
taught

716
00:34:12,619 --> 00:34:08,730
two children in queensland state schools

717
00:34:15,250 --> 00:34:12,629
not whether how there was a very CN

718
00:34:17,629 --> 00:34:15,260
fledging Australian skeptics group and

719
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:17,639
we have the problem that we don't have

720
00:34:22,279 --> 00:34:20,010
the First Amendment your first amendment

721
00:34:24,559 --> 00:34:22,289
to your constitution is precious please

722
00:34:26,720 --> 00:34:24,569
and love it take care of it it is so

723
00:34:28,309 --> 00:34:26,730
important we don't have it if it had

724
00:34:29,270 --> 00:34:28,319
being decided that our schools would

725
00:34:30,799 --> 00:34:29,280
teach a particular kind of

726
00:34:32,690 --> 00:34:30,809
fundamentalist religion that's it

727
00:34:34,399 --> 00:34:32,700
there's no legal challenge and can be

728
00:34:39,079 --> 00:34:34,409
mounted at all there's no constitutional

729
00:34:40,730 --> 00:34:39,089
bar whatever eventually we managed to

730
00:34:42,079 --> 00:34:40,740
fight back now that at that time the

731
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:42,089
Queensland branch the Australian

732
00:34:45,799 --> 00:34:43,530
skeptics was time you probably had about

733
00:34:47,299 --> 00:34:45,809
eight or ten active members we've got a

734
00:34:49,460 --> 00:34:47,309
lot of support from there the skeptics

735
00:34:51,619 --> 00:34:49,470
in other states we mounted a vigorous

736
00:34:54,049 --> 00:34:51,629
campaign to discredit them and

737
00:34:55,970 --> 00:34:54,059
eventually we managed to discover that

738
00:34:58,039 --> 00:34:55,980
they had lost a great deal of money in

739
00:34:59,900 --> 00:34:58,049
shady investments I'm sure it's similar

740
00:35:02,450 --> 00:34:59,910
to what happens in this country the

741
00:35:04,370 --> 00:35:02,460
creationists would go around to churches

742
00:35:06,319 --> 00:35:04,380
and religious groups and they would show

743
00:35:08,210 --> 00:35:06,329
how godless the evolution is about to be

744
00:35:09,380 --> 00:35:08,220
kicked out by wonderful creation and

745
00:35:11,569 --> 00:35:09,390
then it would pass the hat around do

746
00:35:12,769 --> 00:35:11,579
they get a great deal of money and they

747
00:35:14,420 --> 00:35:12,779
would promise that this money was going

748
00:35:16,700 --> 00:35:14,430
to be used to further their got the ends

749
00:35:18,740 --> 00:35:16,710
well in fact what they did with a large

750
00:35:21,349 --> 00:35:18,750
lump of the money but they invested in a

751
00:35:23,180 --> 00:35:21,359
shady investment company run by a couple

752
00:35:25,069 --> 00:35:23,190
of so-called Christians who then

753
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:25,079
contrary to their promises invested is

754
00:35:28,670 --> 00:35:27,210
he gets another shade investment company

755
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:28,680
another state and it promptly

756
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:30,930
disappeared overseas so they lost a huge

757
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:33,450
lump of their supporters money and then

758
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:35,970
they didn't tell me so we found out

759
00:35:40,220 --> 00:35:37,650
about it it's not that the man at the

760
00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:40,230
beginning of 1986 when they were holding

761
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:41,730
their annual conference and they had

762
00:35:45,620 --> 00:35:43,770
doctored you ain t dish from the United

763
00:35:48,349 --> 00:35:45,630
States over as their guest of honor we

764
00:35:52,940 --> 00:35:48,359
blew this on statewide television and

765
00:35:54,950 --> 00:35:52,950
radio and apparently their organization

766
00:35:57,049 --> 00:35:54,960
was cut off from the world for several

767
00:35:58,190 --> 00:35:57,059
days by people demon fermion demanding

768
00:36:00,260 --> 00:35:58,200
to their whether this was true or not

769
00:36:02,299 --> 00:36:00,270
and what a counter their money and the

770
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:02,309
politicians had to back off

771
00:36:06,499 --> 00:36:04,650
involved with a financial scandal they

772
00:36:08,689 --> 00:36:06,509
backed away and I was in the middle of

773
00:36:10,189 --> 00:36:08,699
one television interview when a fax from

774
00:36:12,049 --> 00:36:10,199
the Ministry of Education of my saying

775
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:12,059
he had never supported the teaching

776
00:36:16,099 --> 00:36:14,249
creation science and schools absolutely

777
00:36:18,739 --> 00:36:16,109
not no only what he was a bit more

778
00:36:21,069 --> 00:36:18,749
sensitivity huh believe it when I see it

779
00:36:24,739 --> 00:36:21,079
and then a couple of years later and

780
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:24,749
enormous political scandal exploded

781
00:36:28,279 --> 00:36:26,729
there was corruption in the police force

782
00:36:30,079 --> 00:36:28,289
he was discovered even the Commissioner

783
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:30,089
of Police was corrupted he was sent away

784
00:36:33,589 --> 00:36:32,130
to prison for cabinet ministers were

785
00:36:34,729 --> 00:36:33,599
convicted of corruption they went to

786
00:36:37,339 --> 00:36:34,739
prison and the whole government

787
00:36:38,870 --> 00:36:37,349
completely collapsed the leader of the

788
00:36:41,179 --> 00:36:38,880
Opposition the other fundamentalist

789
00:36:42,620 --> 00:36:41,189
involved was convicted of having sex

790
00:36:45,439 --> 00:36:42,630
with underage girls who spent a number

791
00:36:47,359 --> 00:36:45,449
of years in prison I am sure that all

792
00:36:49,189 --> 00:36:47,369
you will join the lead in great sailors

793
00:36:50,660 --> 00:36:49,199
these devoted public servants should

794
00:36:53,269 --> 00:36:50,670
have been so totally and utterly

795
00:36:56,229 --> 00:36:53,279
discredited and humiliated the post

796
00:36:59,089 --> 00:36:56,239
office in a moment son was only made

797
00:37:01,400 --> 00:36:59,099
public wash you you turn use every night

798
00:37:05,059 --> 00:37:01,410
you interest wonder what next was going

799
00:37:07,309 --> 00:37:05,069
to explode it was quite amazing okay so

800
00:37:09,499 --> 00:37:07,319
we have this statement which came so

801
00:37:11,809 --> 00:37:09,509
close to introducing creation science

802
00:37:13,459 --> 00:37:11,819
into the state school system this was a

803
00:37:15,109 --> 00:37:13,469
particular interest me because I had two

804
00:37:17,449 --> 00:37:15,119
children in the system at that time

805
00:37:21,019 --> 00:37:17,459
which wonder if I was very angry or what

806
00:37:23,209 --> 00:37:21,029
was going on but a good question was

807
00:37:24,499 --> 00:37:23,219
what do please in the study you see

808
00:37:27,859 --> 00:37:24,509
Quisling has always been regarded as

809
00:37:29,689 --> 00:37:27,869
these pigs state you get jumped on an

810
00:37:31,130 --> 00:37:29,699
aircraft flying into Queensland an

811
00:37:33,169 --> 00:37:31,140
announcement comes out over the

812
00:37:35,029 --> 00:37:33,179
loudspeaker system you are now entering

813
00:37:38,900 --> 00:37:35,039
Queensland airspace please set your

814
00:37:40,189 --> 00:37:38,910
watch back 100 years it really was

815
00:37:42,949 --> 00:37:40,199
regarded as this sort of a hick

816
00:37:45,529 --> 00:37:42,959
hillbilly fundamentalist state so we

817
00:37:48,410 --> 00:37:45,539
wanted to find out what do queenslanders

818
00:37:51,319 --> 00:37:48,420
really believe well luckily we had a

819
00:37:53,359 --> 00:37:51,329
method of doing it every two years the

820
00:37:56,029 --> 00:37:53,369
Queensland social survey which is based

821
00:37:58,609 --> 00:37:56,039
in a university does a telephone survey

822
00:38:00,410 --> 00:37:58,619
they telephone a representative sample

823
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:00,420
of about 1,200 clean

824
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:02,010
and they asked them a series of

825
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:04,290
questions and as with surveys in this

826
00:38:11,540 --> 00:38:06,450
country you can put questions on to

827
00:38:13,370 --> 00:38:11,550
their survey we persuaded the Australian

828
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:13,380
skeptics foundation to fully twenty

829
00:38:17,900 --> 00:38:15,690
questions on the survey now this is not

830
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:17,910
cheap the question because $1,500

831
00:38:21,860 --> 00:38:20,130
Australian each to put on which works

832
00:38:23,870 --> 00:38:21,870
about 1,200 american dollars per

833
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:23,880
question so the overall cost of your

834
00:38:27,470 --> 00:38:25,410
stallion skeptics foundation was about

835
00:38:29,420 --> 00:38:27,480
twenty five thousand dollars for the 20

836
00:38:30,950 --> 00:38:29,430
questions that we wanted to ask so we're

837
00:38:33,710 --> 00:38:30,960
very grateful to the australian skeptics

838
00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:33,720
foundation for helping us so instant

839
00:38:36,980 --> 00:38:35,730
unstintingly in this matter and we have

840
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:36,990
a representative of with your strength

841
00:38:42,740 --> 00:38:38,850
Richard thank you Richard that's quite

842
00:38:44,300 --> 00:38:42,750
all right yes it's just a quick comment

843
00:38:46,310 --> 00:38:44,310
you're talking about Queensland what we

844
00:38:52,370 --> 00:38:46,320
also call in Australia is the deep north

845
00:38:53,690 --> 00:38:52,380
yes and I got a wonderful I don't know

846
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:53,700
what you think Martin when people travel

847
00:38:58,250 --> 00:38:55,530
south in this condom they get down to

848
00:39:00,140 --> 00:38:58,260
the survival areas i guess you'd say in

849
00:39:03,950 --> 00:39:00,150
australia you travel to us is it because

850
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:03,960
the sun rots the brain or something well

851
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:05,370
we're going to come to some of those

852
00:39:09,020 --> 00:39:07,890
results in your son and the results some

853
00:39:10,970 --> 00:39:09,030
of these results have never been seen

854
00:39:12,530 --> 00:39:10,980
before by anybody that straight out of

855
00:39:14,570 --> 00:39:12,540
the analysis you're going to see things

856
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:14,580
that nobody else has ever seen and i

857
00:39:20,330 --> 00:39:15,810
think the result is going to surprise

858
00:39:22,070 --> 00:39:20,340
you okay right so we persuaded the

859
00:39:25,070 --> 00:39:22,080
australian skeptics foundation to from

860
00:39:26,390 --> 00:39:25,080
these 20 questions which they did when

861
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:26,400
we wanted to know generally about

862
00:39:30,860 --> 00:39:28,130
queenslanders paranormal beliefs

863
00:39:34,340 --> 00:39:30,870
creationism and other beliefs of as well

864
00:39:36,710 --> 00:39:34,350
and here was the key result we define

865
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:36,720
crashes and fairly tightly did people

866
00:39:40,130 --> 00:39:38,610
believe in creationism you probably

867
00:39:41,930 --> 00:39:40,140
can't see the writing I'll read it out

868
00:39:44,270 --> 00:39:41,940
that's fine which is the idea that God

869
00:39:46,460 --> 00:39:44,280
created human beings pretty much in

870
00:39:48,590 --> 00:39:46,470
their present form at one time within

871
00:39:50,660 --> 00:39:48,600
the last 10,000 years so they can't

872
00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:50,670
pussyfoot around making us I believe in

873
00:39:53,700 --> 00:39:51,730
creation because I

874
00:39:55,020 --> 00:39:53,710
eeveelutions God's method of creation if

875
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:55,030
they were going to say that they

876
00:39:59,940 --> 00:39:56,650
believed or strongly believed in this

877
00:40:01,920 --> 00:39:59,950
they had to accept pretty much the

878
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:01,930
account of the fundamentalists espouse

879
00:40:06,570 --> 00:40:04,570
and the result was that just under

880
00:40:08,670 --> 00:40:06,580
thirty eight percent of Queensland

881
00:40:12,300 --> 00:40:08,680
respondents said that they believed or

882
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:12,310
strongly believed in creation that was

883
00:40:15,180 --> 00:40:13,810
less than expected I looked at her

884
00:40:17,310 --> 00:40:15,190
fingers and I can check them and I

885
00:40:19,140 --> 00:40:17,320
double check that only thirty-eight

886
00:40:20,790 --> 00:40:19,150
percent I mean we've got these

887
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:20,800
terrifying figures from America of

888
00:40:23,940 --> 00:40:22,090
fifty-five percent some people don't

889
00:40:25,980 --> 00:40:23,950
give this relatively low figure for the

890
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:25,990
next thing to do what now either Lucien

891
00:40:30,750 --> 00:40:28,170
would put a question about evolution and

892
00:40:32,460 --> 00:40:30,760
this is again quite a tightly defined

893
00:40:34,140 --> 00:40:32,470
question evolution which is the idea

894
00:40:35,460 --> 00:40:34,150
that human beings developed over

895
00:40:36,690 --> 00:40:35,470
millions of years from less advanced

896
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:36,700
forms of life again it's fairly

897
00:40:40,859 --> 00:40:39,010
unambiguous about 62 and a half percent

898
00:40:43,050 --> 00:40:40,869
believed or strongly believe in

899
00:40:46,230 --> 00:40:43,060
evolution so we've got a totally

900
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:46,240
different pattern in Queensland this so

901
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:48,490
called hillbilly state in Australia

902
00:40:54,420 --> 00:40:51,010
compared to the United States roughly

903
00:40:56,750 --> 00:40:54,430
speaking there's a 62-38 split in favor

904
00:40:59,460 --> 00:40:56,760
of evolution as against creation i

905
00:41:01,920 --> 00:40:59,470
should add it's a lot less time than

906
00:41:04,020 --> 00:41:01,930
that that sounds so neat and tidy oh no

907
00:41:06,090 --> 00:41:04,030
it is we got people even though it

908
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:06,100
defined them so tightly we got people

909
00:41:09,030 --> 00:41:07,930
who believed in both quite a lot we've

910
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:09,040
got people who said they believe you

911
00:41:12,060 --> 00:41:10,810
want it and didn't know about the other

912
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:12,070
one of colors of her colleagues in

913
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:13,810
western australia had great fun labeling

914
00:41:18,650 --> 00:41:15,970
all these strange contradictory groups

915
00:41:21,450 --> 00:41:18,660
i've been a statistician called pen and

916
00:41:23,700 --> 00:41:21,460
she started making a lovely grid and

917
00:41:25,950 --> 00:41:23,710
started figuring out the correlation

918
00:41:28,620 --> 00:41:25,960
between people who were endorsing one

919
00:41:30,330 --> 00:41:28,630
but not the other in fact there are

920
00:41:32,550 --> 00:41:30,340
three items or was also a question on

921
00:41:33,780 --> 00:41:32,560
continental drift you see so you could

922
00:41:35,010 --> 00:41:33,790
start seeing that whether or not there

923
00:41:36,990 --> 00:41:35,020
was a correlation between those who have

924
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:37,000
people endorse one but not to the others

925
00:41:40,620 --> 00:41:38,770
people we lost two but not one of the

926
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:40,630
others and you would get strange

927
00:41:44,190 --> 00:41:42,490
combinations and she just started coming

928
00:41:46,930 --> 00:41:44,200
up with strange waiting names for these

929
00:41:49,150 --> 00:41:46,940
people who like the better sit-ins okay

930
00:41:51,910 --> 00:41:49,160
chilled out the east ones and then just

931
00:41:56,829 --> 00:41:51,920
completed another sees all three sound

932
00:41:58,210 --> 00:41:56,839
great to me oh yeah it's a survey I'm on

933
00:42:01,300 --> 00:41:58,220
the end of my phone which is another big

934
00:42:04,870 --> 00:42:01,310
sometimes have to think about too so

935
00:42:06,250 --> 00:42:04,880
that was the first surprise that we had

936
00:42:09,099 --> 00:42:06,260
from is evidence that this state between

937
00:42:11,710 --> 00:42:09,109
so very very close to institutionalize

938
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:11,720
information science in its stage scores

939
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:14,450
in fact doesn't show particularly strong

940
00:42:18,460 --> 00:42:16,490
levels of support it's interesting

941
00:42:19,809 --> 00:42:18,470
considering that the majority of the

942
00:42:21,839 --> 00:42:19,819
people who advance of these would have

943
00:42:24,430 --> 00:42:21,849
lived through the JP of commuters in

944
00:42:25,870 --> 00:42:24,440
Europe said it would be yeah there's

945
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:25,880
some people who voted to you I guess or

946
00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:27,530
Lisa me through that time yes quite a

947
00:42:32,380 --> 00:42:29,200
lot of them would have done that's right

948
00:42:34,990 --> 00:42:32,390
so the next thing to do is let's compare

949
00:42:38,380 --> 00:42:35,000
belief in creation to other paranormal

950
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:38,390
beliefs it turns out at about thirty six

951
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:40,250
percent of Queenslanders believed in

952
00:42:44,079 --> 00:42:42,290
ghosts that the atomists do you believe

953
00:42:45,819 --> 00:42:44,089
that ghosts or spirits of dead people

954
00:42:47,859 --> 00:42:45,829
can come back in certain places and

955
00:42:49,390 --> 00:42:47,869
situations about thirty six percent of

956
00:42:50,770 --> 00:42:49,400
people believe in ghosts there's not

957
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:50,780
much difference between thirty six

958
00:42:57,609 --> 00:42:52,930
percent ghosts and thirty-eight percent

959
00:43:00,220 --> 00:42:57,619
creation so the support or ghost is just

960
00:43:01,660 --> 00:43:00,230
about the same as that for creation

961
00:43:03,460 --> 00:43:01,670
which is really quite a surprise and

962
00:43:04,690 --> 00:43:03,470
then here's another couple of items and

963
00:43:07,510 --> 00:43:04,700
then I'll just discuss what they mean

964
00:43:09,550 --> 00:43:07,520
the left-hand one is do you believe that

965
00:43:11,579 --> 00:43:09,560
psychic or spiritual healing or the

966
00:43:13,870 --> 00:43:11,589
power of the human mind to heal the body

967
00:43:16,890 --> 00:43:13,880
do you strongly believe in believe in

968
00:43:19,720 --> 00:43:16,900
for disbelieving or whatever and about

969
00:43:21,309 --> 00:43:19,730
fifty five percent of the population a

970
00:43:22,870 --> 00:43:21,319
little more than that said that yes they

971
00:43:24,940 --> 00:43:22,880
believed or strongly believed in this

972
00:43:27,069 --> 00:43:24,950
now Michael Sherman when this item was

973
00:43:29,410 --> 00:43:27,079
put in America they blasted it was right

974
00:43:31,359 --> 00:43:29,420
to do so because it's not strictly a

975
00:43:32,950 --> 00:43:31,369
paranormal item you would answer yes to

976
00:43:35,230 --> 00:43:32,960
that if you believed in spiritual

977
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:35,240
leading or psychic eating you might also

978
00:43:40,750 --> 00:43:37,970
answer yes to it if you had a long

979
00:43:42,430 --> 00:43:40,760
believe that positive attitude our

980
00:43:43,630 --> 00:43:42,440
belief that you're going to get well is

981
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:43,640
going to influence your health

982
00:43:47,770 --> 00:43:45,650
positively and that might not be a

983
00:43:49,450 --> 00:43:47,780
paranormal belief at all so this item is

984
00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:49,460
a bit flawed and Michael Shermer did

985
00:43:53,230 --> 00:43:51,440
point that out but we put it in just the

986
00:43:54,820 --> 00:43:53,240
comparison as you can see a huge which

987
00:43:56,620 --> 00:43:54,830
are if you look appealing in psychic and

988
00:43:58,450 --> 00:43:56,630
spiritual healing then on the right we

989
00:44:00,250 --> 00:43:58,460
have good old astrology and only about

990
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:00,260
twenty eight percent of Queenslanders

991
00:44:04,450 --> 00:44:02,330
believe or strongly believe in astrology

992
00:44:06,099 --> 00:44:04,460
I think if Eugenie Scott the other day

993
00:44:09,070 --> 00:44:06,109
who said that astrology seems to be

994
00:44:11,410 --> 00:44:09,080
going down market and there it goes that

995
00:44:13,420 --> 00:44:11,420
surprises me yes I must admit that that

996
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:13,430
resolve does surprise me I would have

997
00:44:17,770 --> 00:44:15,170
put that and higher if I ought to guess

998
00:44:20,020 --> 00:44:17,780
here because the number of people let's

999
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:20,030
have a moment of history obviously if

1000
00:44:24,580 --> 00:44:22,490
you happen to be reading a magazine or a

1001
00:44:27,010 --> 00:44:24,590
newspaper and you come across an

1002
00:44:30,130 --> 00:44:27,020
astrology column lets the utterly honest

1003
00:44:31,780 --> 00:44:30,140
how many of you glance at your stars and

1004
00:44:34,450 --> 00:44:31,790
just see what they say we've been

1005
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:34,460
totally honest okay it's a skeptical

1006
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:35,690
audience but even so we have a

1007
00:44:39,460 --> 00:44:38,090
substantial number of people who do okay

1008
00:44:41,890 --> 00:44:39,470
what do we want to be deduced from this

1009
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:41,900
well it looks as if creation in

1010
00:44:47,530 --> 00:44:44,690
Queensland doesn't have a particularly

1011
00:44:49,270 --> 00:44:47,540
strong support it's about the same as

1012
00:44:50,859 --> 00:44:49,280
the investor support for ghosts it's

1013
00:44:52,690 --> 00:44:50,869
less than the support for psychic and

1014
00:44:54,579 --> 00:44:52,700
spiritual meaning and is somewhat more

1015
00:44:55,930 --> 00:44:54,589
than the support for astrology now the

1016
00:44:58,390 --> 00:44:55,940
Minister of Education when he was

1017
00:45:00,940 --> 00:44:58,400
shoving creation into our science

1018
00:45:03,220 --> 00:45:00,950
syllabus I said that lots of people want

1019
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:03,230
creation talk we must support it well

1020
00:45:07,630 --> 00:45:05,570
judging by this he must also teach that

1021
00:45:09,339 --> 00:45:07,640
ghosts exist but psychic and spiritual

1022
00:45:11,170 --> 00:45:09,349
healing is valid and there's even a case

1023
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:11,180
for saying that astrology ought to be

1024
00:45:15,010 --> 00:45:13,010
taught to none of these things of course

1025
00:45:18,099 --> 00:45:15,020
were raised or what this does is to give

1026
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:18,109
the lie to his selection creation for

1027
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:20,210
particular support that's quite an

1028
00:45:24,460 --> 00:45:21,890
interesting and surprising result we

1029
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:24,470
were really quite stunned by that okay

1030
00:45:27,460 --> 00:45:26,210
now you can have great fun with the

1031
00:45:29,170 --> 00:45:27,470
first published study you can have a

1032
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:29,180
look at the percentages you can compare

1033
00:45:34,450 --> 00:45:31,850
the percentages and this has been quite

1034
00:45:37,150 --> 00:45:34,460
results what it says to me is that

1035
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:37,160
although we had this group of people in

1036
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:39,770
power pushing creation science there was

1037
00:45:43,690 --> 00:45:41,930
a nap it wasn't all that much of a mass

1038
00:45:45,850 --> 00:45:43,700
movement at all it wasn't particularly

1039
00:45:48,610 --> 00:45:45,860
strongly support increasing it is orb if

1040
00:45:52,060 --> 00:45:48,620
you like honest of top-down movement now

1041
00:45:53,980 --> 00:45:52,070
we go on and we do the more complex part

1042
00:45:55,420 --> 00:45:53,990
of the analysis don't worry I'm not

1043
00:45:56,980 --> 00:45:55,430
going to club you with a lot of

1044
00:45:58,630 --> 00:45:56,990
statistics I'm going to just give one or

1045
00:46:00,340 --> 00:45:58,640
two very interesting findings because

1046
00:46:03,190 --> 00:46:00,350
the kind of things you do next are you

1047
00:46:05,590 --> 00:46:03,200
as well okay what is the structure of

1048
00:46:07,330 --> 00:46:05,600
these things what kind of beliefs tend

1049
00:46:08,950 --> 00:46:07,340
to hang together if people believe one

1050
00:46:10,690 --> 00:46:08,960
thing people likely to believe other

1051
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:10,700
things another thing you can do with

1052
00:46:14,230 --> 00:46:12,530
this day trees you can say well what

1053
00:46:15,820 --> 00:46:14,240
about the characteristics of the people

1054
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:15,830
do religious people believe some things

1055
00:46:20,380 --> 00:46:18,410
more than some things less do all the

1056
00:46:22,660 --> 00:46:20,390
people younger people better educated

1057
00:46:24,250 --> 00:46:22,670
people and so on as an absolute massive

1058
00:46:25,900 --> 00:46:24,260
research is commit up and this is where

1059
00:46:28,510 --> 00:46:25,910
the research papers come from and that's

1060
00:46:30,130 --> 00:46:28,520
what Kylie and I are working on now but

1061
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:30,140
I'm not going to go into all of that

1062
00:46:33,970 --> 00:46:31,370
what I'm going to do is just talk about

1063
00:46:35,650 --> 00:46:33,980
one particular item which is of interest

1064
00:46:38,470 --> 00:46:35,660
to me having former way through the

1065
00:46:40,900 --> 00:46:38,480
creation starts battle what about

1066
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:40,910
religion and creationism now successive

1067
00:46:44,830 --> 00:46:42,650
judges and American courts have ruled

1068
00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:44,840
that creationism and intelligent design

1069
00:46:49,270 --> 00:46:46,730
are forms of religion they are not

1070
00:46:51,430 --> 00:46:49,280
science the judge Overton in the 1980s

1071
00:46:54,340 --> 00:46:51,440
in arkansas AR Judge Jones in

1072
00:46:56,170 --> 00:46:54,350
Pennsylvania in 2004 i believe it was

1073
00:46:58,240 --> 00:46:56,180
ruled the creation of his form of

1074
00:47:01,150 --> 00:46:58,250
religion not science so obvious thing to

1075
00:47:03,670 --> 00:47:01,160
do is ok let us relate people's

1076
00:47:05,290 --> 00:47:03,680
religions the churches they belong to to

1077
00:47:07,270 --> 00:47:05,300
their belief in creation and let's see

1078
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:07,280
what happens because I must have been I

1079
00:47:13,690 --> 00:47:11,570
had a stereotype in my mind that people

1080
00:47:15,460 --> 00:47:13,700
who belong to be more liberal religious

1081
00:47:18,010 --> 00:47:15,470
such as Americans which corresponds to

1082
00:47:19,750 --> 00:47:18,020
your Episcopal would be very skeptical

1083
00:47:21,970 --> 00:47:19,760
about creation science whereas people

1084
00:47:24,190 --> 00:47:21,980
who went to some of the smaller churches

1085
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:24,200
some of the more biblical churches will

1086
00:47:28,900 --> 00:47:26,330
be overwhelmingly in favor of creation

1087
00:47:31,150 --> 00:47:28,910
and again this surprised us were the

1088
00:47:32,860 --> 00:47:31,160
great things about doing research is

1089
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:32,870
that often reality comes up and hit you

1090
00:47:37,450 --> 00:47:34,130
in the teeth you get things you don't

1091
00:47:40,180 --> 00:47:37,460
expect these are the proportions of

1092
00:47:41,980 --> 00:47:40,190
people in different churches and also

1093
00:47:43,930 --> 00:47:41,990
atheists and agnostics and normally was

1094
00:47:46,270 --> 00:47:43,940
down the bottom who said they believed

1095
00:47:48,220 --> 00:47:46,280
or strongly believed in creation now the

1096
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:48,230
first shot was right down the bottom

1097
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:50,330
that's a theist an agnostic those who

1098
00:47:54,670 --> 00:47:52,010
said they have no religion that is

1099
00:47:57,100 --> 00:47:54,680
twelve point seven percent for those of

1100
00:47:59,980 --> 00:47:57,110
the back of the room yeah God in eight

1101
00:48:03,000 --> 00:47:59,990
of the normal believers said that they

1102
00:48:05,110 --> 00:48:03,010
believed the earth was created by God

1103
00:48:06,670 --> 00:48:05,120
and the few leaves are created the

1104
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:06,680
present for now it could be that the

1105
00:48:13,990 --> 00:48:10,570
alias just in a really rocky sensor here

1106
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:14,000
now after all Australians and secondly

1107
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:21,050
there queenslanders with the error this

1108
00:48:26,500 --> 00:48:25,010
plus or minus thirteen percent I think

1109
00:48:27,940 --> 00:48:26,510
is more like three or four per cents the

1110
00:48:30,070 --> 00:48:27,950
[\h__\h] are quite but there are

1111
00:48:31,720 --> 00:48:30,080
some other things first of all the the

1112
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:31,730
people who roundly survey their imported

1113
00:48:34,810 --> 00:48:32,930
that when we started super burn this

1114
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:34,820
study to ask their surveys starting to

1115
00:48:39,130 --> 00:48:36,410
ask these questions there are enormous

1116
00:48:40,420 --> 00:48:39,140
gasps and indications of shock on the

1117
00:48:42,250 --> 00:48:40,430
phone I mean you just imagine that

1118
00:48:44,530 --> 00:48:42,260
you've had a few quiet beers in your own

1119
00:48:45,910 --> 00:48:44,540
home or you've just been woken up or are

1120
00:48:47,770 --> 00:48:45,920
from a deep sleep or something like that

1121
00:48:49,150 --> 00:48:47,780
and somebody says will you do a survey

1122
00:48:50,890 --> 00:48:49,160
and you say yes or are you starting

1123
00:48:52,330 --> 00:48:50,900
asked about your age and your job and

1124
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:52,340
your income and your political

1125
00:48:55,690 --> 00:48:54,050
preferences then all the sudden we start

1126
00:48:57,340 --> 00:48:55,700
getting with these kind of questions do

1127
00:48:59,110 --> 00:48:57,350
you live in creation and evolution it

1128
00:49:01,420 --> 00:48:59,120
wouldn't be surprising if people got a

1129
00:49:02,620 --> 00:49:01,430
bit model these nice neat statistics I

1130
00:49:04,450 --> 00:49:02,630
think this is so in all surveys because

1131
00:49:06,340 --> 00:49:04,460
he will all sort of confusion one other

1132
00:49:08,530 --> 00:49:06,350
thing which will give heart to do

1133
00:49:10,510 --> 00:49:08,540
crusading 80s that we have about is that

1134
00:49:12,049 --> 00:49:10,520
the atheist agnostic no religion

1135
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:12,059
category is actually a mirage

1136
00:49:15,559 --> 00:49:13,890
which is grouping nearly a quarter of

1137
00:49:18,049 --> 00:49:15,569
the people who fell into this category

1138
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:18,059
and that was bigger than our next

1139
00:49:22,309 --> 00:49:19,890
biggest group which were which were the

1140
00:49:23,870 --> 00:49:22,319
Anakin Solo one who had about the

1141
00:49:25,670 --> 00:49:23,880
photography is a little less than a

1142
00:49:27,140 --> 00:49:25,680
quarter of the population so the

1143
00:49:29,809 --> 00:49:27,150
atheists and agnostics are the largest

1144
00:49:31,219 --> 00:49:29,819
religious groups that we had okay let's

1145
00:49:32,630 --> 00:49:31,229
have a look at the others now the top

1146
00:49:35,089 --> 00:49:32,640
two groups the Anglicans and the

1147
00:49:37,339 --> 00:49:35,099
Catholics in both cases the leadership

1148
00:49:39,859 --> 00:49:37,349
of these churches had come out strongly

1149
00:49:41,569 --> 00:49:39,869
against creation I had an interview with

1150
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:41,579
the end of an archbishop of Brisbane and

1151
00:49:47,179 --> 00:49:43,890
he described the ideas of creationists

1152
00:49:49,819 --> 00:49:47,189
as quote crazy that was the exact alert

1153
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:49,829
he used the Catholics were a bit lower

1154
00:49:53,979 --> 00:49:52,410
key but if ever any teacher started to

1155
00:49:56,689 --> 00:49:53,989
teach creationism in a Catholic school

1156
00:49:57,999 --> 00:49:56,699
the big boot would come down and they

1157
00:49:59,959 --> 00:49:58,009
would be stopped dead in their tracks

1158
00:50:02,120 --> 00:49:59,969
but nonetheless look at the figures

1159
00:50:04,099 --> 00:50:02,130
about a third of androgens according to

1160
00:50:06,019 --> 00:50:04,109
this believe in creation as we've

1161
00:50:08,269 --> 00:50:06,029
narrowly defined it and nearly a heart

1162
00:50:10,370 --> 00:50:08,279
of Catholics believe in creation as

1163
00:50:12,650 --> 00:50:10,380
we've divided despite the hostility that

1164
00:50:14,779 --> 00:50:12,660
their leadership there is strong support

1165
00:50:16,609 --> 00:50:14,789
within these churches minority support

1166
00:50:18,049 --> 00:50:16,619
but still strong then we get to other

1167
00:50:20,089 --> 00:50:18,059
denomination which includes the

1168
00:50:23,029 --> 00:50:20,099
Australian uniting church the Lutheran's

1169
00:50:24,529 --> 00:50:23,039
the Baptist whatever else they said and

1170
00:50:26,479 --> 00:50:24,539
that they've got a clear majority who's

1171
00:50:27,799 --> 00:50:26,489
the core creation and then a lot of

1172
00:50:30,049 --> 00:50:27,809
people just describe themselves as

1173
00:50:31,849 --> 00:50:30,059
christian they don't specify which

1174
00:50:33,529 --> 00:50:31,859
church thing on tape normally people who

1175
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:33,539
judge in that in Australian people you

1176
00:50:37,910 --> 00:50:35,130
just describe themselves as christian

1177
00:50:39,949 --> 00:50:37,920
belong in fact too small usually

1178
00:50:41,630 --> 00:50:39,959
fundamentalist churches and sure enough

1179
00:50:44,900 --> 00:50:41,640
sixty-five percent of them but only

1180
00:50:49,140 --> 00:50:47,400
you're a hundred percent so these

1181
00:50:51,329 --> 00:50:49,150
figures are quite surprising they

1182
00:50:53,819 --> 00:50:51,339
suggest support for creation is

1183
00:50:55,529 --> 00:50:53,829
dispersed across all the churches and to

1184
00:50:57,809 --> 00:50:55,539
a small extent of only maintenance and

1185
00:50:59,819 --> 00:50:57,819
agnostics as well so these results are

1186
00:51:00,870 --> 00:50:59,829
quite puzzling I didn't get the enormous

1187
00:51:02,279 --> 00:51:00,880
differences that I thought the

1188
00:51:04,170 --> 00:51:02,289
differences are there but they're not

1189
00:51:07,529 --> 00:51:04,180
that massive so that was quite a

1190
00:51:10,589 --> 00:51:07,539
surprise as well then I discovered

1191
00:51:12,359 --> 00:51:10,599
another question in the survey we

1192
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:12,369
haven't put this in and being put in I

1193
00:51:15,569 --> 00:51:13,450
think by their father surveyors

1194
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:15,579
themselves would you say your religious

1195
00:51:23,819 --> 00:51:20,530
beliefs are very strong people who

1196
00:51:25,470 --> 00:51:23,829
answer that question yes seventy five

1197
00:51:27,420 --> 00:51:25,480
point five percent of the Malaysian

1198
00:51:29,130 --> 00:51:27,430
creation and those who answer that

1199
00:51:31,500 --> 00:51:29,140
question now only twenty-eight percent

1200
00:51:33,079 --> 00:51:31,510
believed in creation now they didn't ask

1201
00:51:35,190 --> 00:51:33,089
that question of atheists and agnostics

1202
00:51:36,359 --> 00:51:35,200
perhaps your current pressure couldn't

1203
00:51:37,980 --> 00:51:36,369
you can argue about the meaning of

1204
00:51:40,650 --> 00:51:37,990
religion but it didn't ask that at the

1205
00:51:41,819 --> 00:51:40,660
atheists and agnostics but the

1206
00:51:43,410 --> 00:51:41,829
interesting thing is there is that

1207
00:51:45,299 --> 00:51:43,420
whether the church leadership was

1208
00:51:47,130 --> 00:51:45,309
friendly to creation or profoundly

1209
00:51:48,420 --> 00:51:47,140
hostile to it or whether there were

1210
00:51:50,069 --> 00:51:48,430
non-christians at all there are a few

1211
00:51:55,079 --> 00:51:50,079
non-christians in there and there was

1212
00:51:59,430 --> 00:51:55,089
one follower a Jedi is in there may the

1213
00:52:01,019 --> 00:51:59,440
force be with you regardless you still

1214
00:52:02,069 --> 00:52:01,029
got this enormous difference with three

1215
00:52:04,470 --> 00:52:02,079
quarts of the people who said that

1216
00:52:05,819 --> 00:52:04,480
religious beliefs through a very very

1217
00:52:07,890 --> 00:52:05,829
strong saying yes they believe in

1218
00:52:09,870 --> 00:52:07,900
creation and only twenty percent of

1219
00:52:12,269 --> 00:52:09,880
those who said that no they would so the

1220
00:52:14,010 --> 00:52:12,279
next thing to do is to cross tab these

1221
00:52:17,250 --> 00:52:14,020
we've got these two effects now the

1222
00:52:19,650 --> 00:52:17,260
church has some effect on whether they

1223
00:52:21,150 --> 00:52:19,660
believe in creation or not but strength

1224
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:21,160
of religious belief things have far more

1225
00:52:26,370 --> 00:52:23,890
so you cross the two here are the

1226
00:52:28,650 --> 00:52:26,380
churches & lickin Catholic other

1227
00:52:29,970 --> 00:52:28,660
denominations of Christian and then we

1228
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:29,980
have whether that people say their

1229
00:52:34,589 --> 00:52:31,690
religious beliefs are very strong or not

1230
00:52:36,569 --> 00:52:34,599
a moral ricans those who say they have

1231
00:52:37,050 --> 00:52:36,579
strong religious beliefs don't say they

1232
00:52:39,030 --> 00:52:37,060
have to be

1233
00:52:41,130 --> 00:52:39,040
fundamentalist beliefs fifty-nine

1234
00:52:43,230 --> 00:52:41,140
percent a kami majority saying yes they

1235
00:52:44,700 --> 00:52:43,240
believe in creation but those who say

1236
00:52:47,190 --> 00:52:44,710
their religious beliefs are not strong

1237
00:52:49,050 --> 00:52:47,200
whether you call to do Catholics more

1238
00:52:50,580 --> 00:52:49,060
than two-thirds of those who have strong

1239
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:50,590
beliefs say they believe in creation

1240
00:52:53,730 --> 00:52:52,570
less than a third of those who don't do

1241
00:52:55,590 --> 00:52:53,740
it who don't have strong beliefs

1242
00:52:57,090 --> 00:52:55,600
ethically impression when you get to the

1243
00:52:59,280 --> 00:52:57,100
other denominations of the Christians

1244
00:53:01,020 --> 00:52:59,290
about eighty-five percent of them would

1245
00:53:04,290 --> 00:53:01,030
strongly say they believe in creation

1246
00:53:06,330 --> 00:53:04,300
and overall but only about a third or

1247
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:06,340
less of those who say they don't have

1248
00:53:10,950 --> 00:53:07,810
strong beliefs said I believe in

1249
00:53:12,510 --> 00:53:10,960
creation so what you seem to have the

1250
00:53:14,430 --> 00:53:12,520
picture that is emerging is that

1251
00:53:16,860 --> 00:53:14,440
regardless of what the leadership of the

1252
00:53:19,770 --> 00:53:16,870
church is say within all the churches

1253
00:53:22,290 --> 00:53:19,780
there are groups of people for whom

1254
00:53:24,450 --> 00:53:22,300
religion is an extremely important

1255
00:53:26,460 --> 00:53:24,460
feature in their lives other people

1256
00:53:28,380 --> 00:53:26,470
simply the mantra crafts or community

1257
00:53:30,540 --> 00:53:28,390
benefits perhaps they just go along with

1258
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:30,550
it for traditional reasons but for those

1259
00:53:35,190 --> 00:53:32,890
who are strongly committed to religion

1260
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:35,200
support for creationism is an awful lot

1261
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:37,330
stronger than those the whom it isn't

1262
00:53:42,060 --> 00:53:39,850
that I think quite an unexpected finding

1263
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:42,070
I've heard anecdotes where people had

1264
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:44,170
said that some odd people i'd have been

1265
00:53:49,710 --> 00:53:46,690
already done in the pejorative sense but

1266
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:49,720
people in churches even those opposed to

1267
00:53:53,610 --> 00:53:51,970
creation were in fact supporting it i

1268
00:53:56,700 --> 00:53:53,620
didn't expect to find a result as

1269
00:53:58,800 --> 00:53:56,710
clear-cut as this what does this suggest

1270
00:54:00,690 --> 00:53:58,810
and i'm coming to the end of my talk now

1271
00:54:02,700 --> 00:54:00,700
what is suggesting it's almost

1272
00:54:04,260 --> 00:54:02,710
regardless of your church almost

1273
00:54:06,180 --> 00:54:04,270
regardless of the church you attend if

1274
00:54:07,980 --> 00:54:06,190
you're strongly religious if your

1275
00:54:09,510 --> 00:54:07,990
religious beliefs take up a large part

1276
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:09,520
of your consciousness in your life

1277
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:11,410
you're much more likely to believe in

1278
00:54:15,450 --> 00:54:13,330
creation and thats a price must be

1279
00:54:16,950 --> 00:54:15,460
religious did on the liberal

1280
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:16,960
denominations as it does to the

1281
00:54:20,670 --> 00:54:18,610
conservative determinations and it

1282
00:54:22,860 --> 00:54:20,680
applies even if your own church is

1283
00:54:23,770 --> 00:54:22,870
actually condemning creation that must

1284
00:54:25,720 --> 00:54:23,780
be particularly difficult

1285
00:54:28,420 --> 00:54:25,730
Catholics because of called caplets

1286
00:54:30,670 --> 00:54:28,430
accept the authority of the Pope and the

1287
00:54:32,170 --> 00:54:30,680
Pope has condemned creation but normal s

1288
00:54:34,210 --> 00:54:32,180
a majority of Catholics who regard

1289
00:54:36,850 --> 00:54:34,220
themselves as strongly religious support

1290
00:54:38,710 --> 00:54:36,860
creation it's an interesting growth how

1291
00:54:40,530 --> 00:54:38,720
we took the questions afterward we will

1292
00:54:43,990 --> 00:54:40,540
note you we will come to your question

1293
00:54:45,610 --> 00:54:44,000
okay now what this is suggesting and it

1294
00:54:47,650 --> 00:54:45,620
doesn't prove it at all but when it

1295
00:54:49,990 --> 00:54:47,660
seems to be suggesting it is that

1296
00:54:52,060 --> 00:54:50,000
creationism is not merely one set of

1297
00:54:53,890 --> 00:54:52,070
beliefs I was completely wrong when I

1298
00:54:55,630 --> 00:54:53,900
had in my mind this idea of the

1299
00:54:57,370 --> 00:54:55,640
fundamentalist being in fundamentalist

1300
00:54:58,450 --> 00:54:57,380
churches and supporting creation and

1301
00:54:59,950 --> 00:54:58,460
over here there were the liberal

1302
00:55:02,680 --> 00:54:59,960
denominations and they didn't support

1303
00:55:06,610 --> 00:55:02,690
the best recuperation there is through

1304
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:06,620
all churches stronger in ority strongly

1305
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:08,090
committed to their religion seeing

1306
00:55:11,860 --> 00:55:09,530
things if you like through religious

1307
00:55:13,150 --> 00:55:11,870
eyes and supporting creation almost

1308
00:55:15,190 --> 00:55:13,160
regardless of what the leadership but

1309
00:55:17,590 --> 00:55:15,200
then churches say the structure of

1310
00:55:20,110 --> 00:55:17,600
precious but it is quite different from

1311
00:55:22,390 --> 00:55:20,120
that which I thought I'm starting to

1312
00:55:25,090 --> 00:55:22,400
think this is of an arcane reference off

1313
00:55:27,070 --> 00:55:25,100
finish off week there was a remarkable

1314
00:55:29,020 --> 00:55:27,080
American sociologist called pity rim

1315
00:55:32,230 --> 00:55:29,030
Sorokin and he started life as a

1316
00:55:33,970 --> 00:55:32,240
shepherd boy in Czarist Russia then when

1317
00:55:36,310 --> 00:55:33,980
the Czarist government fell he became a

1318
00:55:38,380 --> 00:55:36,320
secretary in the cabinet of Kerensky who

1319
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:38,390
was the first it was the the norm

1320
00:55:44,020 --> 00:55:40,690
communist leader who took over after

1321
00:55:45,730 --> 00:55:44,030
bizarre fell then he had to flee Russia

1322
00:55:47,290 --> 00:55:45,740
when the Communists took her for power

1323
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:47,300
in Russia and he ended up as professor

1324
00:55:52,420 --> 00:55:49,850
of sociology at Harvard University and

1325
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:52,430
one of his ideas was that regardless of

1326
00:55:56,140 --> 00:55:54,170
the particular Dominus there's a huge

1327
00:55:58,960 --> 00:55:56,150
difference between people who assume the

1328
00:56:00,910 --> 00:55:58,970
main reality is this world they exist in

1329
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:00,920
this world and those who are you that

1330
00:56:05,140 --> 00:56:02,810
there is a spiritual reality somewhere

1331
00:56:07,150 --> 00:56:05,150
else which is far more important I think

1332
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:07,160
that might be useful idea here because

1333
00:56:11,500 --> 00:56:09,650
what this suggests is that it's not a

1334
00:56:14,050 --> 00:56:11,510
matter of necessary of religious dogma

1335
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:14,060
but some people do see this world as

1336
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:14,890
being

1337
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:16,690
a tree and unimportant compared to the

1338
00:56:21,500 --> 00:56:18,970
spiritual world that lies beyond it and

1339
00:56:23,759 --> 00:56:21,510
those people that's a profoundly pre

1340
00:56:25,380 --> 00:56:23,769
enlightenment view those people

1341
00:56:27,690 --> 00:56:25,390
regardless of the church which they

1342
00:56:29,460 --> 00:56:27,700
inhabit are far more likely to support a

1343
00:56:31,470 --> 00:56:29,470
religious explanation of the origins of

1344
00:56:34,049 --> 00:56:31,480
the world rather than the scientific one

1345
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:34,059
so I don't know how you would apply that

1346
00:56:38,970 --> 00:56:36,210
but to me that's a fascinating insight

1347
00:56:41,190 --> 00:56:38,980
into exactly where these creations the

1348
00:56:43,829 --> 00:56:41,200
leaves are cropping up my sister got up

1349
00:56:45,420 --> 00:56:43,839
i must admit i have seen one example of

1350
00:56:47,190 --> 00:56:45,430
such the australian magazine very

1351
00:56:49,650 --> 00:56:47,200
popular I've been served on every

1352
00:56:52,559 --> 00:56:49,660
Saturday copy of Australian the Commerce

1353
00:56:54,150 --> 00:56:52,569
Ruth Austro has an article in that one

1354
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:54,160
of a good little opinion columns where

1355
00:56:58,559 --> 00:56:56,890
she was suggesting that creationism

1356
00:57:00,930 --> 00:56:58,569
should be taught in schools in order to

1357
00:57:02,730 --> 00:57:00,940
give students a sense of the humanity

1358
00:57:04,529 --> 00:57:02,740
out there and the possibility of another

1359
00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:04,539
world and she is also no I'm an atheist

1360
00:57:08,609 --> 00:57:06,250
but you know would be nice if one sort

1361
00:57:10,349 --> 00:57:08,619
of getting into nice us again so that

1362
00:57:13,170 --> 00:57:10,359
liberal with stuff like a sort of

1363
00:57:15,390 --> 00:57:13,180
quantum inhabitant i'll try to be

1364
00:57:20,549 --> 00:57:15,400
quickly since we have people questions

1365
00:57:23,940 --> 00:57:20,559
and their judgment okay all right this

1366
00:57:25,740 --> 00:57:23,950
is the statistical part which has ended

1367
00:57:27,809 --> 00:57:25,750
up i'm contributing to my master's

1368
00:57:29,819 --> 00:57:27,819
degree in education now in case you're

1369
00:57:32,069 --> 00:57:29,829
wondering no you cannot get a master's

1370
00:57:33,990 --> 00:57:32,079
degree in education if you're just doing

1371
00:57:35,970 --> 00:57:34,000
psychology and as you can see is in

1372
00:57:37,620 --> 00:57:35,980
psychology you can't get master's degree

1373
00:57:40,529 --> 00:57:37,630
in education it's just statistics

1374
00:57:44,670 --> 00:57:40,539
because that statistics you can however

1375
00:57:46,950 --> 00:57:44,680
use this data if you are applying it in

1376
00:57:49,289 --> 00:57:46,960
an educational fashion so what I've

1377
00:57:51,779 --> 00:57:49,299
eventually ended up is a thesis study is

1378
00:57:54,150 --> 00:57:51,789
contributing to the component of my

1379
00:57:58,050 --> 00:57:54,160
master's degree because i'm using

1380
00:58:00,420 --> 00:57:58,060
measurement that involves gosh analysis

1381
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:00,430
it's different to traditional test

1382
00:58:03,990 --> 00:58:01,930
theory it's checking on the internal

1383
00:58:06,390 --> 00:58:04,000
consistency of items and the operation

1384
00:58:09,810 --> 00:58:06,400
in this case on anomalistic beliefs

1385
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:09,820
normally stick beliefs of talk about a

1386
00:58:12,990 --> 00:58:11,650
second essentially we're looking to see

1387
00:58:15,350 --> 00:58:13,000
whether or not it's looking at the same

1388
00:58:17,730 --> 00:58:15,360
traits so we've got paranormal

1389
00:58:20,250 --> 00:58:17,740
pseudo-scientific and we got conspiracy

1390
00:58:22,350 --> 00:58:20,260
theory beliefs in this particular survey

1391
00:58:24,390 --> 00:58:22,360
the conspiracy theory beliefs for the

1392
00:58:28,170 --> 00:58:24,400
last three items at the end they were

1393
00:58:30,390 --> 00:58:28,180
looking at the likelihood that the Twin

1394
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:30,400
Towers were destroyed due to fire and

1395
00:58:35,100 --> 00:58:32,650
the planes crashing into them aids

1396
00:58:38,460 --> 00:58:35,110
conspiracy that was creating authority

1397
00:58:40,530 --> 00:58:38,470
he's given pesetas so you've had 20

1398
00:58:42,630 --> 00:58:40,540
items and so we split up 10 10 and so

1399
00:58:45,780 --> 00:58:42,640
meta great fun time debating I've a lot

1400
00:58:47,730 --> 00:58:45,790
being put in the last item was Duncan

1401
00:58:50,580 --> 00:58:47,740
gun control and that was particularly

1402
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:50,590
relevant ugly in terms of in Queensland

1403
00:58:56,250 --> 00:58:52,930
we should be a suspicious of people who

1404
00:58:58,200 --> 00:58:56,260
try to take away our guns and now I

1405
00:59:00,470 --> 00:58:58,210
should point out that no Australia does

1406
00:59:02,940 --> 00:59:00,480
not have the right to bear arms asleep

1407
00:59:05,670 --> 00:59:02,950
so isn't measuring the same sort of

1408
00:59:09,030 --> 00:59:05,680
thing people who are endorsing

1409
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:09,040
conspiracy theory items are they having

1410
00:59:12,180 --> 00:59:10,690
the same sort of endorsement as they

1411
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:12,190
would a paranormal pseudo-scientific

1412
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:13,690
beliefs are they essentially the same

1413
00:59:22,110 --> 00:59:18,850
sort of thing going through there we go

1414
00:59:25,530 --> 00:59:22,120
Oh Chris french toast french in the UK

1415
00:59:27,510 --> 00:59:25,540
some of you might have heard of him he

1416
00:59:29,370 --> 00:59:27,520
defines a novelistic psychology as its

1417
00:59:31,500 --> 00:59:29,380
study of extraordinary phenomena

1418
00:59:35,970 --> 00:59:31,510
behavior involving power and all it is

1419
00:59:37,980 --> 00:59:35,980
different to parapsychology there is

1420
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:37,990
even we normally see at parapsychology

1421
00:59:40,500 --> 00:59:39,370
at being able to study of these

1422
00:59:43,290 --> 00:59:40,510
particular beliefs there is more

1423
00:59:44,970 --> 00:59:43,300
scientific sort of edge to it and it is

1424
00:59:46,770 --> 00:59:44,980
starting to be available anonymous

1425
00:59:49,020 --> 00:59:46,780
England's it so the recent that this is

1426
00:59:52,110 --> 00:59:49,030
sad to come up there is a goldsmiths

1427
00:59:54,570 --> 00:59:52,120
college in the UK which is studies

1428
00:59:57,870 --> 00:59:54,580
stick beliefs and anomalistic psychology

1429
00:59:59,340 --> 00:59:57,880
and so has not only just the attitude

1430
01:00:00,810 --> 00:59:59,350
that when I'm assuming that there is a

1431
01:00:02,070 --> 01:00:00,820
paranormal experience but having a look

1432
01:00:06,090 --> 01:00:02,080
at the impact that it has a lot of

1433
01:00:08,010 --> 01:00:06,100
people so this is the stats part which

1434
01:00:09,690 --> 01:00:08,020
alternative rush through so again not be

1435
01:00:10,950 --> 01:00:09,700
too overwhelmed by it since on those

1436
01:00:12,870 --> 01:00:10,960
statistics is everyone's favorite

1437
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:12,880
committee if you're endorsing a more

1438
01:00:17,550 --> 01:00:14,770
extreme statement you should endorse the

1439
01:00:19,260 --> 01:00:17,560
less extreme statements so essentially

1440
01:00:20,700 --> 01:00:19,270
you're thinking about a scale if there's

1441
01:00:22,710 --> 01:00:20,710
something that's easy to endorse will be

1442
01:00:25,830 --> 01:00:22,720
following the same pattern as you go

1443
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:25,840
along you'll call a setup aight cop I

1444
01:00:29,010 --> 01:00:27,370
saw that you'll call a set of items of

1445
01:00:30,570 --> 01:00:29,020
common content to scale we've only a

1446
01:00:32,310 --> 01:00:30,580
person with higher rank and another

1447
01:00:34,050 --> 01:00:32,320
person is just as high or home and every

1448
01:00:36,390 --> 01:00:34,060
item just think of it as a line in

1449
01:00:37,830 --> 01:00:36,400
educational stats you can see that if

1450
01:00:39,780 --> 01:00:37,840
you give out into science test for

1451
01:00:41,580 --> 01:00:39,790
example that someone who's managing to

1452
01:00:43,350 --> 01:00:41,590
get the top score on the test they're

1453
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:43,360
able to get the toughest items so the

1454
01:00:46,980 --> 01:00:45,250
real of difficult questions right they

1455
01:00:51,570 --> 01:00:46,990
are most likely have got be easier

1456
01:00:54,270 --> 01:00:51,580
questions right as well why did you feel

1457
01:00:55,830 --> 01:00:54,280
focus is gender differences so if you

1458
01:00:59,100 --> 01:00:55,840
had a look at the gender balance in the

1459
01:01:01,080 --> 01:00:59,110
Queensland Social Services survey seq

1460
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:01,090
stands for southeast Queensland things

1461
01:01:04,770 --> 01:01:03,010
where one a lot of the population has

1462
01:01:07,020 --> 01:01:04,780
gone from the rest was the rest of

1463
01:01:10,290 --> 01:01:07,030
Queensland the total sample was really

1464
01:01:13,890 --> 01:01:10,300
quite nice window but 1243 people in

1465
01:01:16,470 --> 01:01:13,900
total 50.1 percent with male 49.9

1466
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:16,480
percent of female the sheer chance were

1467
01:01:21,060 --> 01:01:19,810
very happy about that women are normally

1468
01:01:22,620 --> 01:01:21,070
stick beliefs are very short history

1469
01:01:24,770 --> 01:01:22,630
essentially you're going to see that

1470
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:24,780
women do have a tendency towards

1471
01:01:29,850 --> 01:01:27,490
endorsing these sorts of things studies

1472
01:01:31,620 --> 01:01:29,860
prior to 2002 they indeed the included

1473
01:01:33,180 --> 01:01:31,630
superstitions astrology hauntings of

1474
01:01:36,990 --> 01:01:33,190
incarnation whereas men have a tendency

1475
01:01:38,910 --> 01:01:37,000
towards UFOs extraordinary life forms

1476
01:01:42,319 --> 01:01:38,920
and creationism and press interest views

1477
01:01:44,430 --> 01:01:42,329
very nicely yeah yes

1478
01:01:47,609 --> 01:01:44,440
there has been some other more recent

1479
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:47,619
studies generally researchers just

1480
01:01:52,260 --> 01:01:50,290
continue to echo this pattern there have

1481
01:01:54,750 --> 01:01:52,270
been some varieties such as Clark in

1482
01:01:56,910 --> 01:01:54,760
2002 she looked as an ethnographic study

1483
01:01:58,950 --> 01:01:56,920
and she started learning a look at pop

1484
01:02:01,740 --> 01:01:58,960
culture's influence upon young women and

1485
01:02:04,589 --> 01:02:01,750
what they believe in I believe the book

1486
01:02:07,230 --> 01:02:04,599
was called from angels to Buffy and

1487
01:02:10,020 --> 01:02:07,240
having a little fun whether or not young

1488
01:02:12,210 --> 01:02:10,030
women influenced by that whether or not

1489
01:02:15,390 --> 01:02:12,220
they were incorporated how many people

1490
01:02:16,980 --> 01:02:15,400
have heard of it book or Twilight I

1491
01:02:20,180 --> 01:02:16,990
think it's probably talk another study

1492
01:02:25,530 --> 01:02:20,190
against that stuff's realism leadership

1493
01:02:27,180 --> 01:02:25,540
goodness for that oh I was inspired by

1494
01:02:29,700 --> 01:02:27,190
this particular person a young woman

1495
01:02:32,010 --> 01:02:29,710
Alyssa waiting on in 2008 she was on

1496
01:02:34,559 --> 01:02:32,020
National Public Radio there was a cheap

1497
01:02:39,390 --> 01:02:34,569
little radio program called this is the

1498
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:39,400
new that so black is the new she said

1499
01:02:42,930 --> 01:02:41,530
psychics are the new psychologists sent

1500
01:02:44,339 --> 01:02:42,940
me to show you can find a transcript

1501
01:02:46,020 --> 01:02:44,349
online anyone who's gone through

1502
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:46,030
something awful knows that dwelling on

1503
01:02:49,380 --> 01:02:48,010
the past isn't any fun getting at that

1504
01:02:53,010 --> 01:02:49,390
point isn't quick with a psychologist

1505
01:02:54,950 --> 01:02:53,020
you should go to a psychic instead and i

1506
01:02:58,170 --> 01:02:54,960
ended up logging about it and saying

1507
01:02:59,790 --> 01:02:58,180
essentially yes what she's saying it was

1508
01:03:02,460 --> 01:02:59,800
pretty much echoed by many young women

1509
01:03:05,069 --> 01:03:02,470
from the research but see she read my

1510
01:03:06,599 --> 01:03:05,079
blog and got in touch with me I never

1511
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:06,609
put anything up on the internet if you

1512
01:03:11,190 --> 01:03:09,250
don't want someone to find it and she

1513
01:03:12,809 --> 01:03:11,200
was really quite interested she said I

1514
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:12,819
didn't know that people studied this

1515
01:03:16,319 --> 01:03:14,050
sort of thing before I didn't know that

1516
01:03:19,349 --> 01:03:16,329
I was actually echoing a large

1517
01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:19,359
population of people in this and I've we

1518
01:03:23,700 --> 01:03:20,770
ended up having a bit of an email chat

1519
01:03:26,010 --> 01:03:23,710
about why she believed these things but

1520
01:03:28,020 --> 01:03:26,020
yeah this is an example the typical

1521
01:03:31,380 --> 01:03:28,030
young person who will endorse these

1522
01:03:34,710 --> 01:03:31,390
sorts of things it is an example of some

1523
01:03:36,900 --> 01:03:34,720
of the statistical data that we ended up

1524
01:03:39,150 --> 01:03:36,910
getting this is from Rome 2020 which is

1525
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:39,160
a statistical software program it's an

1526
01:03:43,079 --> 01:03:41,410
example category probability curve it's

1527
01:03:44,700 --> 01:03:43,089
got all the thresholds the nice pretty

1528
01:03:47,579 --> 01:03:44,710
pattern that you can see there that's

1529
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:47,589
good when I get that its value

1530
01:03:52,380 --> 01:03:49,930
at all however not every single item

1531
01:03:54,839 --> 01:03:52,390
ended up this pretty and what it did

1532
01:03:57,180 --> 01:03:54,849
eventually indicate was that even though

1533
01:03:59,309 --> 01:03:57,190
people were indeed endorsing if you

1534
01:04:01,019 --> 01:03:59,319
didn't believe if you didn't have a

1535
01:04:02,940 --> 01:04:01,029
tendency towards particular paranormal

1536
01:04:04,769 --> 01:04:02,950
pseudoscience police you weren't going

1537
01:04:06,719 --> 01:04:04,779
to carry that through through others it

1538
01:04:08,609 --> 01:04:06,729
wasn't always consistent and we heard

1539
01:04:10,499 --> 01:04:08,619
that already with people endorse in

1540
01:04:13,499 --> 01:04:10,509
creationism and evolution at the same

1541
01:04:17,700 --> 01:04:13,509
time you get some really wacky craps out

1542
01:04:19,170 --> 01:04:17,710
of that endorsement of items one of the

1543
01:04:22,109 --> 01:04:19,180
other lovely features is that you can

1544
01:04:26,099 --> 01:04:22,119
demonstrate differences in belief in

1545
01:04:27,690 --> 01:04:26,109
gender this is item 05 number we came up

1546
01:04:30,599 --> 01:04:27,700
with okay mama catch phrases for each

1547
01:04:32,670 --> 01:04:30,609
one because like alien number stars

1548
01:04:37,650 --> 01:04:32,680
stars us like sure way of saying

1549
01:04:41,249 --> 01:04:37,660
astrology guns 911 would cross fingers

1550
01:04:42,809 --> 01:04:41,259
and so forth anyway this is item 05

1551
01:04:45,029 --> 01:04:42,819
number you can see they're quite a nice

1552
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:45,039
little pattern in terms of the males are

1553
01:04:51,329 --> 01:04:47,890
more clearly endorsing across the strata

1554
01:04:52,620 --> 01:04:51,339
over females number was do you believe

1555
01:04:56,219 --> 01:04:52,630
that numbers have special significance

1556
01:04:58,799 --> 01:04:56,229
for example the number for another 13 I

1557
01:05:00,420 --> 01:04:58,809
included the numbers for because i was

1558
01:05:02,969 --> 01:05:00,430
aware that we might have an Asian

1559
01:05:04,289 --> 01:05:02,979
population and it has a influence on

1560
01:05:08,069 --> 01:05:04,299
whether or not you consider a nice and

1561
01:05:10,319 --> 01:05:08,079
lucky we can possibly discuss this

1562
01:05:12,599 --> 01:05:10,329
together if you like Martin like I just

1563
01:05:15,239 --> 01:05:12,609
touching wood and crossing fingers

1564
01:05:17,519 --> 01:05:15,249
something went very interesting man i

1565
01:05:19,319 --> 01:05:17,529
leave i coded you should we talk about

1566
01:05:21,739 --> 01:05:19,329
this oh I could give a two minute

1567
01:05:25,259 --> 01:05:21,749
summary that's interesting yes he just

1568
01:05:28,019 --> 01:05:25,269
wanna know I've got to do it all right

1569
01:05:30,690 --> 01:05:28,029
okay okay okay and I prefer to rely on

1570
01:05:32,969 --> 01:05:30,700
my lungs but nevermind okay um we

1571
01:05:34,469 --> 01:05:32,979
included six items on superstitions

1572
01:05:36,719 --> 01:05:34,479
Richard Wiseman is a very well-known

1573
01:05:38,549 --> 01:05:36,729
British psychologist have made up to

1574
01:05:40,589 --> 01:05:38,559
little scales of different kinds of

1575
01:05:42,420 --> 01:05:40,599
superstitions things like touching wood

1576
01:05:43,950 --> 01:05:42,430
crossing fingers Karen your lucky charms

1577
01:05:45,900 --> 01:05:43,960
and so on and he divided the ridge of

1578
01:05:47,750 --> 01:05:45,910
positive and negative superstitions and

1579
01:05:50,150 --> 01:05:47,760
they've been used in quite a lot of

1580
01:05:51,980 --> 01:05:50,160
but nobody's ever actually tested

1581
01:05:54,020 --> 01:05:51,990
whether they work probably that is to

1582
01:05:56,060 --> 01:05:54,030
say whether if you're likely to endorse

1583
01:05:58,520 --> 01:05:56,070
a one positive superstition you're

1584
01:06:01,280 --> 01:05:58,530
likely to endorse others or not and we

1585
01:06:03,290 --> 01:06:01,290
are the first people to chat it and no

1586
01:06:05,270 --> 01:06:03,300
it doesn't work I'm a great admirer of

1587
01:06:07,130 --> 01:06:05,280
Richard Wiseman either skeptic he's a

1588
01:06:08,450 --> 01:06:07,140
really good psychologist but to be

1589
01:06:11,090 --> 01:06:08,460
honest and please don't quote me on this

1590
01:06:13,010 --> 01:06:11,100
he has resoundingly stuffed up this

1591
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:13,020
particular scale and we are going to

1592
01:06:17,150 --> 01:06:15,330
have to put this in print and it's gonna

1593
01:06:19,370 --> 01:06:17,160
be awful for him sorry but it's there

1594
01:06:26,570 --> 01:06:19,380
I'm sorry I don't have the same attitude

1595
01:06:29,150 --> 01:06:26,580
as I took my son got it wrong conspiracy

1596
01:06:30,890 --> 01:06:29,160
theory items i discovered that through

1597
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:30,900
wash modeling that conspiracy theory

1598
01:06:34,790 --> 01:06:33,090
items do not correlate with paranormal

1599
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:34,800
and pseudoscience they're different set

1600
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:36,930
of beliefs there is very little research

1601
01:06:40,610 --> 01:06:38,490
done on conspiracy theory items

1602
01:06:42,740 --> 01:06:40,620
involving 911 it's only recently started

1603
01:06:45,140 --> 01:06:42,750
coming out I contact the doctor his

1604
01:06:48,740 --> 01:06:45,150
friend she had a very more like a

1605
01:06:50,090 --> 01:06:48,750
general manager Street survey about 911

1606
01:06:52,310 --> 01:06:50,100
beliefs and with I heard that he was

1607
01:06:53,870 --> 01:06:52,320
doing one and he said that he had some

1608
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:53,880
interesting data but it was to be a

1609
01:06:57,710 --> 01:06:55,410
formalized in the fashion that house

1610
01:07:00,500 --> 01:06:57,720
works and more and more papers have

1611
01:07:02,270 --> 01:07:00,510
started to come out and at least we can

1612
01:07:04,460 --> 01:07:02,280
contribute in that way to data saying

1613
01:07:06,140 --> 01:07:04,470
that conspiracy theory item police

1614
01:07:08,540 --> 01:07:06,150
appear to be something different and

1615
01:07:11,030 --> 01:07:08,550
further research can of course be drawn

1616
01:07:13,490 --> 01:07:11,040
from this I'm interested in possibly

1617
01:07:15,290 --> 01:07:13,500
using some of the items on the star

1618
01:07:16,529 --> 01:07:15,300
clarifying them because they did not

1619
01:07:18,599 --> 01:07:16,539
match up in

1620
01:07:21,299 --> 01:07:18,609
the pseudoscience conspiracy and

1621
01:07:23,699 --> 01:07:21,309
paranormal in terms of meeting the same

1622
01:07:24,839 --> 01:07:23,709
believe with conspiracies I might just

1623
01:07:27,959 --> 01:07:24,849
have been focusing on one particular

1624
01:07:29,729 --> 01:07:27,969
aspect of pruning a different scale of

1625
01:07:32,069 --> 01:07:29,739
taking everywhere tell you one thing I'm

1626
01:07:35,189 --> 01:07:32,079
interested in this finding that for a

1627
01:07:38,059 --> 01:07:35,199
whole range of paranormal beliefs within

1628
01:07:40,199 --> 01:07:38,069
a [\h__\h] Marty to believe that men and

1629
01:07:41,909 --> 01:07:40,209
well there's been a lot of sexist

1630
01:07:43,620 --> 01:07:41,919
interpretations of that kind of thing

1631
01:07:45,839 --> 01:07:43,630
I'll tell you what I'm going to try to

1632
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:45,849
do just to see whether it works or not I

1633
01:07:50,249 --> 01:07:48,130
have a theory that this is partly

1634
01:07:52,589 --> 01:07:50,259
related to education basically the more

1635
01:07:54,659 --> 01:07:52,599
education you have some of the

1636
01:07:56,729 --> 01:07:54,669
paranormal beliefs decline as you become

1637
01:07:59,400 --> 01:07:56,739
more educated not all of them but some

1638
01:08:01,650 --> 01:07:59,410
of them so I've got a theory that among

1639
01:08:03,239 --> 01:08:01,660
older women who on average are less

1640
01:08:05,130 --> 01:08:03,249
well-educated than older men and

1641
01:08:07,289 --> 01:08:05,140
certainly than younger people you are

1642
01:08:09,329 --> 01:08:07,299
going to find that the explanation as to

1643
01:08:11,039 --> 01:08:09,339
why women are more likely to believe in

1644
01:08:13,529 --> 01:08:11,049
the paranormal is that these older women

1645
01:08:15,359 --> 01:08:13,539
are less well-educated and therefore

1646
01:08:17,249 --> 01:08:15,369
they're more prone to paranormal beliefs

1647
01:08:19,410 --> 01:08:17,259
that among younger women you're going to

1648
01:08:21,599 --> 01:08:19,420
get far more skepticism that's a theory

1649
01:08:23,099 --> 01:08:21,609
I could very well be wrong and if i'm

1650
01:08:24,510 --> 01:08:23,109
wrong i should probably keep very quiet

1651
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:24,520
about it but that's what over there is

1652
01:08:29,099 --> 01:08:26,650
i'm going to test out and of course

1653
01:08:31,140 --> 01:08:29,109
martin is doing other research on what

1654
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:31,150
makes the skeptic as well so you can

1655
01:08:37,499 --> 01:08:35,290
afford to that again which is weighted

1656
01:08:39,209 --> 01:08:37,509
crowd she was so wonderful and he

1657
01:08:40,950 --> 01:08:39,219
previously let's get pizza and wonderful

1658
01:08:42,269 --> 01:08:40,960
represented there you can find out more

1659
01:08:45,749 --> 01:08:42,279
about the australian skeptics on

1660
01:08:49,140 --> 01:08:45,759
skeptics between escondo value first

1661
01:08:50,939 --> 01:08:49,150
last you want to say that's my pop the

1662
01:08:53,629 --> 01:08:50,949
podcast that both fidgeting i remembers

1663
01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:53,639
of skeptics on TV thank you Richard

1664
01:08:57,240 --> 01:08:55,690
there's a televisions Richard Saunders

1665
01:09:01,589 --> 01:08:57,250
during the Toyota see here for some

1666
01:09:03,149 --> 01:09:01,599
reason oh I can't even a no man we

1667
01:09:06,299 --> 01:09:03,159
wouldn't have this yes exactly and

1668
01:09:08,549 --> 01:09:06,309
public comm is my blog where I have in

1669
01:09:10,319 --> 01:09:08,559
order to discipline myself to write my

1670
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:10,329
master's thesis after ten years of being

1671
01:09:16,169 --> 01:09:13,489
in high school I had continually written

1672
01:09:18,549 --> 01:09:16,179
of my data put it up with blog post so

1673
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:18,559
there's a lot to be said for being held

1674
01:09:23,559 --> 01:09:20,449
tonight 25,000 words if you just

1675
01:09:25,419 --> 01:09:23,569
doubling 1000 chunk in increments over

1676
01:09:26,890 --> 01:09:25,429
two years of time put it up on a blog on

1677
01:09:29,140 --> 01:09:26,900
for a few pretty pictures and best of

1678
01:09:30,789 --> 01:09:29,150
all it ends up having people who you are

1679
01:09:33,430 --> 01:09:30,799
talking about end up writing to you

1680
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:33,440
which is quite intriguing too and thank

1681
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:35,210
you very much ladies enjoy thank you

1682
01:09:56,560 --> 01:09:53,890
thank you for listening to this episode

1683
01:09:58,330 --> 01:09:56,570
of the skeptic zone tune in again next

1684
01:10:02,200 --> 01:09:58,340
week as we bring you an interview with

1685
01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:02,210
noted astronomer Seth Shostak until then

1686
01:10:10,180 --> 01:10:04,370
this is Richard Saunders signing off

1687
01:10:12,490 --> 01:10:10,190
from Sydney Australia you've been

1688
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:12,500
listening to the skeptic zone visit our

1689
01:10:22,370 --> 01:10:17,570
website at WWF digs on TV for comments